Need mill adVise

[akjeff]

A fair number of 6" Kurts on ebay for $300 and less.

kurt milling vise for sale | eBay

Get the best deals for kurt milling vise at eBay.com. We have a great online selection at the lowest prices with Fast & Free shipping on many items!

www.ebay.com

 

[pacifica]

I need advice about what milling vise to buy. Now, I know, everyone is going to say just one word: Kurt. My own advice is always to go with quality tools and whenever possible the every best quality. In addition, I realize just how important a high precision vise is for producing high quality work as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, at this point I simply cannot afford it. I can't even afford a decent Kurt clone like the Bison supposedly may be. I am well aware of the compromises involved with a "cheap" clone, but I also know a few tricks that can help mitigate some of the issues involved with such a compromise. Believe me, as soon as I can afford it, I will shell out the extra bucks to replace the less expensive vise with a high quality vise such a a Kurt. In the mean time, I need a good deal on at least a 5" milling vise. I don't want total junk, of course, but something reasonable for less than $250. This Old Tony reviewed a 4" Vertex vise for under $150 that really wasn't too bad, all things considered. Does anyone out there have a recommendation for a decent 5" vise that will still allow me to pay my mortgage next month?

I have bought two 6" kurt vises for under $200 and a 8" for 350 and they have all been great. My D675 gets jammed with chips and seems like it isn't moving but just needs a 1/2 hour of cleaning to be like new. You might find someone that has a jammed Kurt they are selling cheap-then you can easily disasemble and clean it for a great deal.

 

[brino]

Okay, they may revoke my Hobby-Machinist card for this but here we go......

I have never used a kurt vise (....and never driven a maserati).
But I don't get what all the fuss is about.

I have a 6" Novakon mill vise that I bought at my local used tool place.
I have no idea where it was made and don't recall the exact price, but I wouldn't have paid $300.
I made my own table clamps, and that vise has done everything I need.
It is at least as accurate as the mill and its owner.

I thought there were some pictures of it posted here, but I could not find them.
I will try to post some up shortly.

-brino

EDIT: this thread has a couple pics of my mill vise:
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/mill-vise-jaw-clamp-stop.87586/post-784988

 

[mmcmdl]

I have never used a kurt vise

Man card revoked !

 

[akjeff]

Okay, they may revoke my Hobby-Machinist card for this but here we go......

I have never used a kurt vise (....and never driven a maserati).
But I don't get what all the fuss is about.

I have a 6" Novakon mill vise that I bought at my local used tool place.
I have no idea where it was made and don't recall the exact price, but I wouldn't have paid $300.
I made my own table clamps, and that vise has done everything I need.
It is at least as accurate as the mill and its owner.

I thought there were some pictures of it posted here, but I could not find them.
I will try to post some up shortly.

-brino

EDIT: this thread has a couple pics of my mill vise:
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/mill-vise-jaw-clamp-stop.87586/post-784988

Nice job on the vise stop! For some reason the name Novakon rings a bell. I think they were a company that either made and/or marketed some CNC machines?

My first mill ( a Rockwell 21-100 ) happened to come with a 4" Kurt, and I was so impressed with the quality and performance, that I made up my mind when I got a bigger machine it would have a 6" Kurt on the table. I continue to be impressed with the design, and the build quality. I also admit to having a strong distaste for communist country knock offs. The Kurts are damn near dimensionally perfect, and just flat don't move when you tighten them up on a part. And if you buy used, there isn't a hell of lot of $$$ difference between the Kurt, and a new Chinesium copy.

 

[projectnut]

Okay, they may revoke my Hobby-Machinist card for this but here we go......

I have never used a kurt vise (....and never driven a maserati).
But I don't get what all the fuss is about.

I have a 6" Novakon mill vise that I bought at my local used tool place.
I have no idea where it was made and don't recall the exact price, but I wouldn't have paid $300.
I made my own table clamps, and that vise has done everything I need.
It is at least as accurate as the mill and its owner.

I thought there were some pictures of it posted here, but I could not find them.
I will try to post some up shortly.

-brino

EDIT: this thread has a couple pics of my mill vise:
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/mill-vise-jaw-clamp-stop.87586/post-784988

If you want to retain your "Hobby-Machinists" card you can always stay a couple nights at a Holiday Inn. That should put you back in good standing. Just be sure you get the right room. If they assign you to the wrong room you might suddenly have the urge to play a doctor on some TV show, or become a Sports Analyst.

 

[Shotgun]

The Kurts are damn near dimensionally perfect, and just flat don't move when you tighten them up on a part.

I've had the same question as @brino. So, would this be the answer? The figure of merit for a vice is that the part doesn't move one you tighten it down?

I just assumed that as long as the fixed jaw is flat, and the vice is stout enough, it could be shaped any old way. You stick a part in and clamp down on it, often sticking a piece of dimensionally unknown scrap in there to insure that it indicates against the fixed. Who care if the movable jaw is straight at that point? Once clamped down, and you've indicated the part if necessary, you don't take the part out until it is done. Again, as long as the part doesn't move in the vice while you're cutting, why would you care that the fixed jaw is not perfectly perpendicular to the sides, or perfectly parallel to the outside? Why would I care that the top of the vice is perfectly flat once I've bolted it to the table?

Full disclosure: I bought a $120 6" 'acculock' vice for my RF-30 clone after I broke the 4" chinesium thingy that I got with the mill. It claimed .0002" accuracy. The only thing I checked was the fixed jaw, and my tenths indicator doesn't move once I've indicated it in.

 

[akjeff]

Well, one thing is, if the moving jaw lifts up away from the bed of the vice when you tighten it on a work piece, it won't matter how good the fixed jaw is, your part is going to tilt in the vise. I just can't imagine a $150 Chinese vise is going to do that well in this regard. Having said that, it all depends on what you're doing with your machine, and where your "close enough" limit is. For me, I don't mind buying used, do a little scrubbing, some stoning, and throw a $20 rebuild kit in something that's going to super solid, and probably outlast me, if I take care of it.

 

[projectnut]

Well, I'm going to find out how good or bad a cheap Chinesium vise really is. I just ordered a 4" one on a swivel base for my horizontal mill. I would have preferred a high end vise, but I couldn't see paying 3 times what I paid for the mill to put a new vise on it. The 4" one will be replacing an even cheaper Craftsman 3" vise that was advertised as a "Milling Machine Vise" in a Sears flyer from the 1980's. In reality it's a poor excuse for a wood workers vise with graduations on a swivel table. The vise is so wienie that I think I could snap the screw by overtightening it with one hand.

Here's a link to the cheapie I bought.

Milling Machine Lockdown Vise 4" Swivel Base Precise Scale Clamping Vise | eBay

【WIDE APPLICATION】- Precision milling drilling vise, suitable for milling, drilling machine, and precision parts finishing. Swiveling vise features with the perfectly aligned precision jaw. Maximum clamping force of 19 KN.

www.ebay.com

It's supposed to arrive by the 15th of the month. Time will tell if it was a good, fair, or poor purchase.

 

[pacifica]

Well, one thing is, if the moving jaw lifts up away from the bed of the vice when you tighten it on a work piece, it won't matter how good the fixed jaw is, your part is going to tilt in the vise. I just can't imagine a $150 Chinese vise is going to do that well in this regard. Having said that, it all depends on what you're doing with your machine, and where your "close enough" limit is. For me, I don't mind buying used, do a little scrubbing, some stoning, and throw a $20 rebuild kit in something that's going to super solid, and probably outlast me, if I take care of it.

Another thing is that the bottom surface, vise bed, and swivel base are all flat and in the same plane to the mill and throughout the full opening of the vise and any degress it is rotated. Also when vise jaws are changed that they are the same height and parallel.If there is error I prefer user error (which I may be able to correct)and not the tool I am using.