• This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.
  • PLEASE: Read the FORUM RULES BEFORE registering!

Logan 820 Spindle Took Damage

Xnerd

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
101
Likes
15
#1
Short and sweet

I have zero idea how this happened and it may have been kicked thus from when I purchased the lathe, but yesterday to my horror I noticed that my spindle has a 1/4 inch of its inner surface bored or wore considerably down!

I have never run a boring rod past the jaws if this machine so I'm at a loss,

I have a spindle for a Logan 10inch 1821 sitting on the shelf but do not know if these are compatible
My 820 has flat belt pulling and the 1821 has v bell some think there is a groove in the on the spindle to align the grub./set screw in but not certain.

I'm really freaking out because I get no measurable run out at a foot with the damaged spindle with I hear us rare. I know that this lathe was hardware store window decoration for 45 years and was never run.

Question

Is there a site that where I might be able to research this compatibility ?
Lathes. Com was no help for this specifically and no 820 schematics are publicly available at the sub assembly level
 

CluelessNewB

Active Resistor
H-M Supporter-Premium Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
980
Likes
422
#2
Although some head stock parts changed over time it appears that the part number for the 820 spindles was always LA-660. I know nothing about the 1821.
 

Xnerd

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
101
Likes
15
#3
Although some head stock parts changed over time it appears that the part number for the 820 spindles was always LA-660. I know nothing about the 1821.
Thank you for the information where exactly did you find it when I search for the parts through Logan actuator it only brought up an 11 inch spindle. . . . the length of these two spindles is identical I guess the only way I'm really going to tell if they're both head studs apart something I really didn't want to do it unless I knew for sure it was a perfect match
 

Xnerd

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
101
Likes
15
#4
I think they may be compatible I just found this on a part number conversion chart through the Logan actuator company



LP-1303 LA-660 Spindle, 1-1/2" - 8 Th'd 12-3/4" Lg (800 & 1800 Series 10" Lathes) I may have gotten very lucky with this one
 

Xnerd

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
101
Likes
15
#7
Well I finally replaced the spindle and I'm pissed off. Let me back up for a minute it started out with a notice there was a busted tooth on my back gear. So I got on eBay and found one really super cheap got it in the mail today and decided since I was going to tear the headstock apart I might as well throw the other spindle that I had in. Not that the original spindle was causing me much of a problem I rarely turn things between centers in the slight damage on the inside of the spindle nose hasn't really affected anything.

The old spindle was absolutely wonderful is there such a thing as an exceptionally good spindle? Because I could not measure any run out on the nose even with my last word I couldn't measure any nothing nada. I thought that my life word was screwed up because I couldn't get it to move it was perfect like glass. So I replace the spindle and test the IR and what do you know 001 run out the nose ! I'm not looking forward to trying to do anything for Precision on this one. I have the hardinge that I've started to get tools for but there's problems there too. I can't find high speed Steel that's pre hardened to save my life so I can't do any complex form tools which I really need to do. It sucks trying to figure out everything by yourself LOL.

I hate coming here and just asking question after question it's irritating even to me LOL

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 

Xnerd

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
101
Likes
15
#9
The original spindle had a little bit of damage inside the nose something ran into far like a boring bar and took out a little bit of meat from the inside of the spindle that was the original post. I hadn't changed it because everything was working fine even turning in between centers it really didn't even affect the taper that much everything was dead nuts on.

I had to tear apart the headstock to switch back gears because I had a busted tooth I noticed the other day so I figured I'd change the spindle out while I was at it. After switching it out I'm having regrets the new spindle has run out where the old spindle was absolutely dead nuts perfect on the nose

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 

Xnerd

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
101
Likes
15
#11
Sorry to say, but I think you are trying to fix something that wasn't broken. Good luck.
Well yes I had a tooth missing on my back gear so I had to do that anyway.
As the first 1/2" of the inside of my spindle was carved away about 3/16th so changing the spindle out was a reasonable thing to do seeing as I had a spare already .

I just did not expect to go from perfect ir at the nose to a thousandths out with the new spindle!

Before I changed spindles I could easily remove jobs from a 3 jaw and put them back in without loosing concentricity on any noticeable level maybe a quarter of a thousandth worst case

Can't do that now. Considering putting the original spindle back in

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 

Chipper5783

Active User
H-M Supporter-Premium Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
565
Likes
406
#12
Sorry to say, but I think you are trying to fix something that wasn't broken. Good luck.
True, the back gear needed to be addressed, but was there a functional issue with the old spindle? I understand what you are saying about the first 1/2" of the inside of the spindle having been machined out about 0.19" - but do the HS spindle tools hold properly? You pointed out that the chucks hold repeatably to very little run out.

What is the spindle taper? If it is supposed to be an MT3? - did you try putting a center into the taper, or perhaps a drill chuck? What if you just confirmed that there are no burrs, clean it up a little if need be and see if it will hold spindle tools well. Randy may have a very good point that you are trying to fix a spindle that does not have an operational problem.
 

Xnerd

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
101
Likes
15
#13
True, the back gear needed to be addressed, but was there a functional issue with the old spindle? I understand what you are saying about the first 1/2" of the inside of the spindle having been machined out about 0.19" - but do the HS spindle tools hold properly? You pointed out that the chucks hold repeatably to very little run out.

What is the spindle taper? If it is supposed to be an MT3? - did you try putting a center into the taper, or perhaps a drill chuck? What if you just confirmed that there are no burrs, clean it up a little if need be and see if it will hold spindle tools well. Randy may have a very good point that you are trying to fix a spindle that does not have an operational problem.
Well that's the thing I've only been operating this old beast for 2 years and seeing as I do not turn between centers very often was not sure if there WAS a functional issue. I did have some difficulty holding consistent numbers while periodically checking run out with a 12" piece of 3/4 inch drill rod. (Of course this could very well be due to my general lack of experience and crappy tools lol.) I thought that I would pull the old spindle and rerun that test, but have not gotten to that as of this moment.

So perhaps I run that tomorrow and decide.

The m3# tools "seem" to hold just fine. But mentally I have a hard time trusting using them due of course the missing 1/2 " of spindle.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 

Xnerd

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
101
Likes
15
#14
And I just really want a quick thank everyone for their opinions. It makes me feel like I could go back to the original spindle and not worry about it. I've removed it several times due to Belt issues and it always centers itself in there the same with zero IR so I'm confident if I put it back it'll be just as good

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 

Silverbullet

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
May 4, 2015
Messages
2,340
Likes
1,055
#15
I really think the problem is your expectations of the lathe. I for sure wouldn't go changing anything with zero run out. One broken tooth I don't think would make a difference in use. You've got a machine that's working well keep looking for problems and you'll find them or cause them.
Why not use it till something don't work. As long as parts come out right don't look for trouble. This isn't a China made redo machine. Just my advise.
 

Chuck K

Active User
H-M Supporter-Premium Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
811
Likes
277
#16
Are you sure the original spindle was damaged? I have had a lot of 10 and 11" logans. I had one 10" turret machine (don't recall the model) that I bought as a parts doner. The spindle had a relief machined in the end of the bore. I think it was meant to have a front mounted collet closer of some sort. I don't recall if it had a taper behind the relief. I'll have to dig around tomorrow and see if I still have it. I couldn't imagine someone cutting into the spindle with a boring tool and not realizing that they had gone too far.
 

tq60

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
509
Likes
254
#17
When we turn between centers we place a round in the 3 jaw and make a point.

Always true center that way.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
 

Chuck K

Active User
H-M Supporter-Premium Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
811
Likes
277
#18
I couldn't imagine someone cutting into the spindle with a boring tool and not realizing that they had gone too far.[/QUOTE]
After looking at a few spindles this morning it's obvious that some people don't listen to the machine while boring. 3 of 4 had been cut into. Here's a pic of the one I mentioned that has relief cut into it....now I'm wondering if this was factory or just user error. I inserted a MT3 center and it seems to seat well in the taper. The upside is: once you've had the spindle out it's only about a 30 min job to do it again. Anyone who forgot to put the spindle through the belt the first time knows this...LOL 20170924_082002.jpg
 

Xnerd

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
101
Likes
15
#19
I couldn't imagine someone cutting into the spindle with a boring tool and not realizing that they had gone too far.
After looking at a few spindles this morning it's obvious that some people don't listen to the machine while boring. 3 of 4 had been cut into. Here's a pic of the one I mentioned that has relief cut into it....now I'm wondering if this was factory or just user error. I inserted a MT3 center and it seems to seat well in the taper. The upside is: once you've had the spindle out it's only about a 30 min job to do it again. Anyone who forgot to put the spindle through the belt the first time knows this...LOL View attachment 242453 [/QUOTE]Mine is worse than this but a 3mt seats fine.

I have decided to put new grease in this bearing cuz there's a little bit of clicking going on and then reinstall the much much much much better spindle. I have removed these back and forth in there is absolutely a gigantic difference in the run out. I want the old spindle back in no question about it.
I'm currently removing the old grease from the front bearing and I have a question. Anyone that's repack one of these bearing certainly must have dealt with the cage? They say Do not fill more than 1/3 on this particular bearing but how in the hell am I going to tell what a third is trying to squeeze grease down past the cage? Bending up all those little **** to take the top part of the cage off seems undoable as I would mess it up break at least one. How do people get around this simply guess?

This is the process of used up to this point

Hot Simple Green suspending the spindle just slightly off of the bottom of the container occasionally lifting it out and let it drip out in and out in and out in and out for an entire day I then rinsed it out with several cups of thinner there's no Clickety clicking anymore to prevent it from rusting I have it soaking in a narrow container in very thin oil non detergent. I was thinking of trying to estimate the volume of the bearing slightly warm up the bearing grease I'm going to use until it's liquidy pour it in and let it solidify some will leak out but eventually it'll stop itself up.

Please tell me if I'm doing anything wrong.

I know people think that I'm doing unnecessary things to this lathe but this is very important to me the run-out is so drastically different between these two spindles. It is absolutely 100% worth switching things out it does not take that much time is very easy process.

I am not without a lathe while doing this I have a hardinge

This whole business with accuracy is made me realize that I have to migrate to a much much better lathe I'm looking for a monarch at this point. You can find them fairly cheap in the Detroit area lots of old machine shops. Shyt you can buy a hardinge fully tool for $1,000

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 

Chuck K

Active User
H-M Supporter-Premium Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
811
Likes
277
#20
I can tell you that nothing that I have found dissolves the old grease better than soaking the bearing in a container of pine -sol. Thats what is suggested by Scott Logan. I use one of those little needles that you insert in the nozzle of the grease gun to shoot the grease in. I think I got them at NAPA.
 
Container Above bottom breadcrumb