Intro to my little hobby metal shop and request for tooling recommendations

[ttabbal]

What makes you prefer straight shank? Wider availability and interchangeability of specific tooling? Or is there another reason I'm missing.

It's just preference, so keep that in mind. The biggest reason is that I can commonly use the same collet for a few tools, so I spend less time swapping the collet. I can also easily use it if I have the ER40 adapter installed by just swapping the collet at the end, not removing the whole adapter. While it doesn't really apply to the flycutter, it's also nice to be able to hold things in other tools with drill chucks and other collets. While an R8 only works in the mill, I can use a straight shank on my lathe as well.

It's kind of a small thing, but I like having more options.

 

[CounterSunkenTreasure]

The biggest reason is that I can commonly use the same collet for a few tools, so I spend less time swapping the collet.

Figured. That makes sense. probably makes buying second hand things easier as well.

 

[extropic]

I got a kick out of you preparing a cutter inventory spreadsheet. LOL
The organization will serve you well. I don't remember anyone doing it before.

Your list of the next tooling to buy looks good to me except . . .
I have no use for fly cutters or face mills on a light machines. Just keep a good tram and take a few passes with your best biggest endmill. Personal preference. YMMV.

 

[CounterSunkenTreasure]

I got a kick out of you preparing a cutter inventory spreadsheet. LOL

Haha yeah i log all my tools. The cutter list is so big cause I just bought a big lot and didn't know what the heck they were so i looked up all the model numbers. Its neat cause the mfgs give you all the rates and specs for them.

I have no use for fly cutters or face mills on a light machines. Just keep a good tram and take a few passes with your best biggest endmill.

Fair enough.... I have a few 1" ones that could probably try a light pass if needed. But that nice wide fly stroke is aesthetically pleasing. We'll see. I've been spending more time working on the lathe a bit so I've got a little while till I move to the mill. Even then i have the 3 axis DRO to install.

I've got some lathe questions ill probably get up later this week.

 

[erikmannie]

You gotta have boring bars. Boring on the lathe is FUN, in my opinion. I used Chinese boring bars & carbide inserts.

 

[CounterSunkenTreasure]

You gotta have boring bars. Boring on the lathe is FUN, in my opinion. I used Chinese boring bars & carbide inserts.

Indexable or brazed? I see there are some import kits that could hit two birds having boring head and a bar set that should match my OXA holder size as well.

 

[erikmannie]

Indexable or brazed? I see there are some import kits that could hit two birds having boring head and a bar set that should match my OXA holder size as well.
View attachment 340506

Indexable. I bought (and wore out) some cheap brazed carbide cutters once, and I am not in a position to resharpen the carbide (I have no green wheel).

I really like carbide inserts because you know the geometry is spot on, as I don’t have the experience to achieve that with HSS.

 

[CounterSunkenTreasure]

Couple of lathe items.

• E-STOP Maybe i'm a dweeb but I was surprised there was no E-Stop on the lathe. Looking around most are pretty low amperage at 120V (3A-10A) which I thought was odd. You'd figure something needing an E Stop would have some amps cranking through. The manual for the G4000 calls out 9A on a 15A circuit. I can take a current reading at some point but seems like i'm fine. I'll go pre capacitor. It'll be nice for an emergency or to cut power when changing work pieces or belts rather than unplugging. The power toggle has you reaching across the whole machine and chuck to shut off.

• CHIP SHIELD. I'll probably fab up a super simple chip shield out of a hinge and some plexi. My bench is pretty high and the lathe is very close to face level. Also maybe a little something to keep moderate chips off the bed in front of the carriage.

• CHIP CONTAINMENT I'll probably find some sort of lip or catch for the workbench. maybe my feeds etc are screwy but i got crap everywhere even with a little running. Shop vac and magnetic broom made quick work of it. Any tips?

• FEEDS- the feed rate chart they gave was surprisingly minimal. It only shows 4 feed rates using the quick-change box and only 2 changegear combos. I have a whole stack of change gears which would make me think that there are a bunch of extra feed rates that aren't listed (besides threading) am i wrong here? Are the threading and feed rate selector box completely separate? they dont seem like they are.

• FINISH- I've been getting crappy finishes (well decent i guess). I've gotta relook the speed feed charts as i was just winging it but i couldnt get any of those mirror passes i always see people get. i tried a few different tools and speeds/cuts. Not sure of the metal type but bits are all carbide. I was running no oil. I'll play some more but any hints?

 

[ttabbal]

For the e-stop, you can use those switches if you use them with a relay, sometimes called a "contactor". You have the e-stop switch run the coil, the contacts go to the main switch. You can also use them with the motor controller like a VFD if your machine has one.

Chips flying, yeah, happens. You can make various shields to try to keep them in place, or just accept it. I find the mill is far more messy, but the lathe can sure fling stuff once in a while.

The feed rates, and threading, are set with change gears. You can likely find a gear set with a slower feed to get better finish. That chart shows 4.7 thous/rev as the slowest rate with those gears. It's not uncommon for me to run 1 thou/rev for a finish pass. There is likely a chart somewhere in the documentation that shows the recommended setups. And there have been a few people that have made spreadsheets and such to calculate them. Getting everything to fit is another issue as well.

For finish, carbide on small machines can be iffy that way. You can do better if you use the right feeds and speeds, but HSS will likely still outdo it. If you want to stick to inserts, try some polished inserts usually made for aluminum. They tend to be sharper and for the lighter loads we use at home, they hold up well in steel as well. And get some known material that is known to finish well. Starting with unknown material just complicates things. Even just 6061 aluminum is a good place to start. 1018 steel is not. I've had good luck with 12L14 and 303 stainless as well.

 

[macardoso]

For finish, carbide on small machines can be iffy that way. You can do better if you use the right feeds and speeds, but HSS will likely still outdo it. If you want to stick to inserts, try some polished inserts usually made for aluminum. They tend to be sharper and for the lighter loads we use at home, they hold up well in steel as well. And get some known material that is known to finish well. Starting with unknown material just complicates things. Even just 6061 aluminum is a good place to start. 1018 steel is not. I've had good luck with 12L14 and 303 stainless as well.

+1 to this.

I personally love the CCGX or CCGT inserts. Specifically the CCGX32.50 is my weapon of choice for a lot of things.

CCGX 32.50 LH YD101 Carbide Insert

www.shars.com

Shars sells the asian brand ZCC for a lot of their inserts. They seem pretty high quality, much much better than Banggood or AliExpress inserts, but they cost proportionately more.

These inserts are pressed and then ground to a sharp edge (compared to pressed only for most steel cutting inserts). This dramatically reduces cutting forces at the expense of a weaker edge. I've found these to have near infinite life in aluminum and a pretty good life in steel and stainless. In fact these would be the only thing I'd use in stainless.

The last digit in the designation (CCGX32.50) indicates the corner radius. 0 = sharp, 1 = medium, 2 = large. The larger the radius, the faster you can feed for a desired surface finish. This however increases cutting forces and messes with dimensional accuracy. I prefer the sharp (0) corner since cutting forces are minimized and I can get within 2-3 tenths of my desired diameter without too much hassle. I'm also not in a rush and don't mind a longer machining time to get a nice finish.

The other benefit is the minimum depth of cut. With all tools, the sharpness of the edge indicates the minimum depth of cut at which the tool will no longer cut material and instead rub over the surface. With many steel focused inserts, this could be as large as 0.015" giving you very little flexibility to dial in a finishing pass (hence some people's preference for HSS). With these inserts, I've done depth of cuts in the 0.0005" range and still had it form a real chip. Once you get dust or crumbles, then you are no longer cutting.

I use these inserts for general roughing and finishing in Aluminum (my 12x36 lathe can take a 0.25" DOC with these!) and for finishing only in steel. If I need bulk material removal in steel, I will use a steel finishing insert. My lathe is not large enough to use general purpose or roughing steel inserts.