1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. PLEASE: Read the FORUM RULES BEFORE registering!

    Dismiss Notice

Grizzly G0704 Cnc Conversion

Discussion in 'MACHINE BUILD LOGS' started by cozmogeek, Jan 9, 2016.

  1. MontanaAardvark

    MontanaAardvark United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Just South of the Kennedy Space Center
    City:
    Melbourne
    State:
    Florida

    -Return to Top-

    You know the saying: happy wife = happy life, right?

    I saw you're running LinuxCNC, right? Is that parallel port or USB? If you're running USB, what hardware did you use? If you used Hoss' recommended breakout board, that's a parallel interface.

    I think I need to cross that bridge sooner or later, and this seems as good a time as any.
     
  2. cozmogeek

    cozmogeek United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    kent
    State:
    Washington

    -Return to Top-

    I'm using parallel with the rj45 breakout board. I think I'm going to change to a faster PC (my previous desktop probably) with a parallel add in card because this one already has issues keeping up and I'm not even changed to the ballscrews yet.

    This old machine was my desktop before the previous machine I was using (Athlon 64 dual core). It is the only system in my house with a parallel port. If I crank the jog wheel on the USB pendant too fast it loses its mind.
     
  3. MontanaAardvark

    MontanaAardvark United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Just South of the Kennedy Space Center
    City:
    Melbourne
    State:
    Florida

    -Return to Top-

    Sounds like mine. It's a 2.4 GHz P4 that I put together around '04. I spent some time making sure as little as possible would run on it - not even go into screensaver because I've heard of that causing glitches. I keep it off the home network and carry files out to it on a USB drive.

    Edit to add: I think we're in the same position of having started out doing "phase 1" and are converting over to phase 2. In my case, I started out thinking I like the idea of having the mill with hand wheels, so I can just walk up to it and trim something. That requires lead screws. Some thinking about it made me realize, I never do that on my Sherline, so why would I start now? That's when I started leaning toward ball screws.

    Looking at the hardware, it seems that the standoffs are a little shorter, but the motor mounts are the same. The Y axis spacer is the same. Am I missing anything here?
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
  4. cozmogeek

    cozmogeek United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    kent
    State:
    Washington

    -Return to Top-

    I decided to just build the phase 3 parts instead of finishing phase 2. I picked up the rest of the metal to make it all yesterday. This machine is on wifi right now actually so that's probably not helping anything either. However it probably isn't worth messing with when I can just get a parallel port card for like $20 and change to a much faster computer (3ghz quad core) that is otherwise collecting dust.
     
  5. cozmogeek

    cozmogeek United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    kent
    State:
    Washington

    -Return to Top-

    jLKhNhIh.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  6. cozmogeek

    cozmogeek United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    kent
    State:
    Washington

    -Return to Top-

    The issue is the timing of the threads in Linuxcnc. I have it turned almost all the way "slow" and it still loses it when I jog the z axis too fast. I get a joint following error which if you're using steppers means the PC couldn't keep up. It's not going to work at all with the ballscrews judging by the speeds in hoss' videos.
     
  7. MontanaAardvark

    MontanaAardvark United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Just South of the Kennedy Space Center
    City:
    Melbourne
    State:
    Florida

    -Return to Top-

    The PC I've been using to run Mach3 has been slowly going downhill. I think it's the power supply, but every time I start it, it takes about 4 or 5 restarts for everything to come up. I'll see the light in the optical mouse turn on, then go off. Once it starts and gets to Windows with everything working, it stays solid as a rock, but it doesn't inspire confidence. I think I'm going to swap it for another copy of the same system (from '04). Just take the other computer, which seems to be solid, and swap hard drives with the one that has Mach3 on it.

    I have to say that Hoss' DVD seems to have all the information, but it's not organized well. He includes things like a drawbar wrench, which made me wonder what it was for. The Phase 2 section has all the belt drive components for the Z axis, but doesn't say you can't use the direct drive method. I found that somewhere else (I think!). Some more work on a big picture of what you're doing, more like workflow and not step-by-step directions, but more overview of what you need and how you get there, in one place, would make it more helpful. I'm not even sure there's a single place to go read what the difference is between the phases 2 and 3. The other side of that disorganization is that if you email Hoss, you'll generally have an answer in a few hours.
     
    starion007 likes this.
  8. cozmogeek

    cozmogeek United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    kent
    State:
    Washington

    -Return to Top-

    Yeah I'm totally lost doing this too. I don't think this was meant for beginners at all. The info is great but could be a lot better.
     
  9. MontanaAardvark

    MontanaAardvark United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Just South of the Kennedy Space Center
    City:
    Melbourne
    State:
    Florida

    -Return to Top-

    Well, I just ordered my double nut ball screws from Chai, so I have a few days to figure out what I need to do. Looks like a few small pieces of aluminum make, but not a big deal.

    Are you implementing the oiling system?
     
  10. cozmogeek

    cozmogeek United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    kent
    State:
    Washington

    -Return to Top-

    I haven't really thought about it yet. What happens if I don't? Obviously the balls need lubricating.
     
  11. MontanaAardvark

    MontanaAardvark United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Just South of the Kennedy Space Center
    City:
    Melbourne
    State:
    Florida

    -Return to Top-

    I have no idea if it's needed or not. It does look like it will be essentially impossible to get to the ballnuts to lubricate them, but I was wondering if just putting oil on the screws and running rapids back and forth would work the oil into everyplace it's needed.

    Maybe one of the knowledgeable guys on the list here will pass along some wisdom.
     
  12. TomS

    TomS Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    409
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City:
    Redding
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Most ball nuts have a non-metallic wiper on each end to keep out dirt and other debri. These wipers will prevent most, if not all, of the oil reaching the the ball nut internals. You need to come up with a plan to lube your machine, e.g. the ball nuts and the X, Y and Z dovetails. Otherwise you risk rapid wear of your dovetails and ball nuts and screws and ultimate failure of your machine. Probably at the most inopportune time.

    Here's a picture of my X axis ball nut and X and Y axis dovetail lubrication feed lines. If you need more pictures let me know.

    Tom S.
    X Axis Ball Nut Assembly 03.JPG
     
  13. MontanaAardvark

    MontanaAardvark United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Just South of the Kennedy Space Center
    City:
    Melbourne
    State:
    Florida

    -Return to Top-

    Thanks, Tom,

    That oiling system is similar to what Hoss implements in his DVD. I think he did his G0704 in several steps over a year or more. Started with what he calls phase 1, wasn't happy with it so he did phase 2 switching over to Rotron ball screws; wasn't happy enough with that and went to phase 3 with two ball nut screws. Somewhere in there, he added the oiling system and milled slots just like the elongated Z shaped grooves like you show. I'm not sure when it showed up, but I'm pretty sure it was between phase 2 and phase 3.

    From where I sit, it's whole 'nother level of complexity and stuff to do, but I can't see anything bad about doing it. Except for figuring out how to do the work. I'm not at all confident I could put the base of my G0704 on my Sherline to make those cuts. Hoss had another big milling machine, a ZX45, to do that work.


    Bob
     
  14. cozmogeek

    cozmogeek United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    kent
    State:
    Washington

    -Return to Top-

    Yeah I'm already not sure how I'm cutting the necessary slots in the table. I bought a handheld router and I'm hoping I can use an end mill in it to do the cutting.
     
  15. TomS

    TomS Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    409
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City:
    Redding
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    I installed a one-shot oiling system on my Enco mill drill a few years ago before I had the CNC mill. I drilled and tapped the feed ports in my drill press and cut the oil distribution grooves by eye with a die grinder and a ball nosed carbide burr. Didn't look pretty but the oil doesn't know the difference. It's not that difficult. Just takes time, a few plumbing fittings and about 20 feet of hose. I highly recommend it.

    Tom S.
     
  16. MontanaAardvark

    MontanaAardvark United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Just South of the Kennedy Space Center
    City:
    Melbourne
    State:
    Florida

    -Return to Top-

    I was thinking of using an angle grinder, not a small router. Horrible Freight has a few on sale this month and the mid-cost option is like 22 bucks. I could pick up a die grinder for even less.

    Mind you I've never used either one, although a die grinder is kinda like a Dremel on steroids, and I've used Dremels for years.

    The local HF store is less than two miles from the house, which is a plus. As for getting a tool there, it is Horrible Freight, after all, but it only has to work for a few hours.
     
  17. cozmogeek

    cozmogeek United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    kent
    State:
    Washington

    -Return to Top-

    I actually bought a grinder recently that I haven't used yet. I may end up doing that once the router idea fails :p
     
  18. MontanaAardvark

    MontanaAardvark United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Just South of the Kennedy Space Center
    City:
    Melbourne
    State:
    Florida

    -Return to Top-

    The only thing about the router that gets me is that I've never heard of anyone cutting anything harder than aluminum with one. I think the base of the Griz is cast iron, which isn't as bad as stainless or tool steel, but sure isn't aluminum.

    At least an angle grinder is regularly used on steel, and is one of the tools Hoss recommends - in that part where he says it doesn't have to be pretty, just cut away in places.
     
  19. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    844
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Mountain View
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    A router will work on cast iron with a carbide ball end mill. I would use a 1/8" dia. but it will require a bushing for most routers. Set up a jig to guide both sides of the router and take light cuts, 0.020". Let the cutter cut and don't force it. I would do it outside with a fan to blow the cast dust away and wear a mask, goggles etc.
     
    cozmogeek likes this.
  20. MontanaAardvark

    MontanaAardvark United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Just South of the Kennedy Space Center
    City:
    Melbourne
    State:
    Florida

    -Return to Top-

    Cool. Good to know. Cast iron tends to have sand in it, or in the first few mils right? Is that why you say to do it outdoors?

    I think of routers at something like 25,000 RPM. Would it help to slow it down?
     
  21. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    844
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Mountain View
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    If you are cutting the ground face of the saddle there shouldn't be anything other than cast iron. Slower is better just depends on your router. Using a router is not preferable and hard on the router and cutter but it does work.

    Cutting cast at high speed creates really fine metal dust. Not good to breath or get all over everything in your shop.
     
  22. MontanaAardvark

    MontanaAardvark United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Just South of the Kennedy Space Center
    City:
    Melbourne
    State:
    Florida

    -Return to Top-

    Got my leadscrews from Chai today. I have to compliment him on the turnaround time. Chai knows about the cuts to the X-axis ballnut assembly that Hoss did and includes that.

    I think having these things in hand will help sort through all the options that Hoss puts up. I was looking at those folders on the DVD and getting really confused. I think I see which holders to make now.

    Left to right, that's X, Y, Z, for anyone who cares.

    C7Ballscrews.JPG
     
    TomS and jbolt like this.
  23. roadie33

    roadie33 Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    518
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Ozawkie, Ks
    City:
    Ozawkie
    State:
    Kansas

    -Return to Top-

    If I may ask, what was the cost for the screws and ballnuts ready to put in?
     
  24. MontanaAardvark

    MontanaAardvark United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Just South of the Kennedy Space Center
    City:
    Melbourne
    State:
    Florida

    -Return to Top-

    With the double ballnuts, $189 delivered. With single nuts, that drops to $159.

    The X-axis ballnuts are cut down to the size that Hoss shows on one of his drawings - you can see it on the left. They seem to have "G0704 conversion" as a product. Once I told him what I wanted, he knew immediately.
     
  25. roadie33

    roadie33 Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    518
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Ozawkie, Ks
    City:
    Ozawkie
    State:
    Kansas

    -Return to Top-

    Might have to get a set to see if it will help with the play in the X and Y.
    I already did the belt and pulley mod on mine. But not real sure If I want to go the whole CNC route.
    Would be nice to have the Z axis with power up and down.
     
  26. MontanaAardvark

    MontanaAardvark United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Just South of the Kennedy Space Center
    City:
    Melbourne
    State:
    Florida

    -Return to Top-

    I think Hoss said he got backlash down to around .001 with the double ballnut screws.

    Not sure what mod you mean. The spindle belt and pulley or the Z-axis belt and pulley?

    I'm still rather confused on exactly what I need to do switch from phase 1 to phase 3. It's presented as a sequential set of upgrades and then with options for each way of doing it. I'd do better with a "do this, then that, then this" kind of approach.
     
  27. roadie33

    roadie33 Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    518
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Ozawkie, Ks
    City:
    Ozawkie
    State:
    Kansas

    -Return to Top-

    I did the Spindle Belt and Pulley mod. Now I get around 3600 RPM. Works great for Aluminum milling.
    I have a couple of Gear reduction DC motors and might try to work something with one of them for a Powered Z Axis with a remote switch on the front.
     
  28. cozmogeek

    cozmogeek United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    kent
    State:
    Washington

    -Return to Top-

    Even after buying those double nut ballscrews you still have to mill the parts to connect the nuts to the table.. plus the cutting of the table to make the nuts fit. It's not very simple.. not "ready to put in" at all really. You need the phase2 or 3 motor mounts and whatnot too.
     
  29. MontanaAardvark

    MontanaAardvark United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Just South of the Kennedy Space Center
    City:
    Melbourne
    State:
    Florida

    -Return to Top-

    I'm seeing that there appears to be two versions of every ballnut mount, X, Y and Z. The two versions of Y in that folder don't look interchangeable. I mean, one has six holes (but says you need four of six), and one has four holes, but they're not part of the six. I mean, I opened both DXF files laid the four hole piece on top of the six hole version and no holes overlap. The six hole version looks more like my ballscrew nuts. The X axis isn't clear either. One version of the X ballnut mount has pins, the other has holes.

    The X and Y motor mounts and spacers are different from the phase 1 I started out with, and he goes to using angle aluminum instead of standoffs (pieces of bar). Instead of four standoff mounts, each motor gets three, but the angle piece acts as a shield from chips and coolant splashes. Instead of using the bearings that come with Griz, he goes over to new bearings, spacers and shims. It looks like he replaces both ends of the X-axis table and uses a different spacer for the Y axis. And, like you say, there's cutting away cast iron in the base to get the ballscrews in place.

    The Z axis looks like I can use the phase 1 direct drive mount and standoffs.

    But other than that it looks perfectly clear. Easy peasy.

    Oh, yeah. I don't see the oiling system anywhere.
     
  30. cozmogeek

    cozmogeek United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    kent
    State:
    Washington

    -Return to Top-

    I'm sure if we spent a few days reading hundreds of pages of Hoss' g0704 posts we might understand it all.. I bought all the stock and bearings to do this, I just need to do all the CAM and get it done. Once I'm done with the Y axis bearing block it's on to the ballnut mount pieces and that big X end cap.
     

Share This Page