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Got My First Lathe... Logan 1875

Discussion in 'LOGAN ENGINEERING CO. & LOGAN WARDS' started by Mr Mike, Sep 5, 2017.

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  1. Mr Mike

    Mr Mike United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I found this Logan model 1875 - 10" x 24" on Craigslist when I first started looking for a lathe... It fit the criteria of what I was looking for - Its the same lathe I posted about in my Introduction post. Original listing was $1500.00 but after a few weeks he agreed to sell it to me for $850.00 - I made the 12 hour round trip to LA and back the same day to pick it up, On the worst holiday weekend one could pick, Labor Day..

    I was excited but so tired out from all the traffic when I got there that I just checked for missing gear teeth, Carriage and Cross feed travel and the bed ways for obvious damage. he had additional tooling that he wanted to sell - Like quick change tool holders but no matching tool post - and other odds and ends that I took a pass on.

    The lathe has an interesting past, It was an LA city school lathe, from what appears to be 1979 and has been in storage since 2008. You can see etching in the cabinet sides from students, as well as student abuse in the form of nicks and dings in the bed ways under the chuck that the tail stock rides along. It looks as if it was mostly a static piece in the class. The seller claimed it was the teachers machine and that student didn't run it.

    There is plenty of paint missing and, a thin layer of surface rust covering the entire machine from sitting in storage. One cabinet door is bent but no other visible damage to the cabinet or chip tray.

    After a great nights sleep.. I started to disassemble my awesome new machine down to its major components to look for latent damage, and so far Ive found none - most likely because I don't know what to look for yet - My ( the hard way ) lessens begin now... No matter what, so long as the bed ways are in good shape ill be restoring it from the ground up, Parts availability seems to be plentiful so a replacement bed is not out of the question either.

    GotLathe.jpg

    I washed the Bed with Engine Degreaser ( pun intended ), scrubbed, rinsed and towel dried it, low and behold its blue.. the whole time I thought the lathe was machine Grey. Nope, that was just all the crud that came off from the photo above.. After I find out the bed ways are good I'll remove the paint and build a sealed box of the exact bed size to dip the whole unit in Evapo Rust...

    LatheBed.jpg

    You can see the small nicks and dings. They're only in the first few inches past where the head stock sits. The rest of the bed ways looks to be in great shape. I'll need to find a book on lathe restoration so I know what if anything to do about them, I'd also like to know if the ways are hardened, because hardened ways from what I've read was an option on this lathe.

    BedMarks.jpg

    This is going to be so much fun, can't wait to get started, This will be the perfect starter lathe for me.

    Should I do a complete write up on this restoration or do you guys just want the before and afters cause there is probably tonnes on here..?

    Time to go research stuff, happy lathing people...

    Mike.
     
  2. killswitch505

    killswitch505 United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Great score!!!!! Welcome to the soon to be broke club lol
     
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  3. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Congrats on your new lathe, Mike! Happy for you.

    If you plan to soak that whole bed in Evaporust then its going to get pretty costly. Why not consider using an electrolytic bath instead? It would cost you a few dollars for the washing soda at the market and it will take off all the rust and paint without damaging the parent metal and with zero physical effort. You can build a plywood box and line it with plastic sheet and I bet it would come out really nice. Just a thought.
     
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  4. Laytonnz

    Laytonnz New Zealand Active Member Active Member

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    Good luck! I also started with a school machine exept it definitely wasn't the teachers machine..! Still painting and fixing odds and ends but coming to the end I must update my thread actually, I've learned a ton and so will you! +1 on the electrollisys bath works real good, I've also used drain cleaner in hot water... like a hot dip (caustic) not the best idea but works well.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
     
  5. RandyM

    RandyM United States Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    We definitely want all the details. And don't leave anything out.

    What a great project.
     
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  6. rambin

    rambin Canada Active Member Active Member

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    im going thru the same process at the moment so I want all the details so maybe I can get an idea or two off you.... parts are available from logan but be prepared to say ouch!! ebay might be a better option depending on what you may need...Ive had great results with a big bucket and a gallon of super clean by Castrol (degreaser) I put my small parts in there and leave them for a day and all grease and paint is virtually gone.... pretty much just hose off the paint reside, dry and re paint....
     
  7. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Remember that low spots from damage cause no issues with the geometry of the lathe, only the high spots do that, so only the high spots need to be repaired. Unsightly dings are really only an issue in the mind of the proud owner, so try to get over it and fix the things that really matter with making it a good lathe. Dings on hardened beds do not so much have the crater divot with raised outer diameter look of softer metal. Hardened way dings often look more like chips out of the metal, low spots only. Note that hardened ways are usually not really that hard, so it is a matter of degree. The high spots also may have already been addressed. If there is a high spot around a bed ding or a hidden corner of the bed, carefully test it with a small file. If the file wants to skate, then the bed is hard. It is possible to hide dings fairly well using an epoxy with metal in it. Some search and study time will show you which ones others have had good experience with and hide the dings by matching the color well and sticking well to the bed.
     
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  8. Laytonnz

    Laytonnz New Zealand Active Member Active Member

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    One suggestion, buy or BUILD a parts washer I made one last weekend from an old sink, 20L oil drum a battery charger a car fuel pump and some plywood .

    Works perfect and I couldn't be without it anymore.! So much time on the floor with a bucket and brush

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
     
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  9. Nogoingback

    Nogoingback United States Active Member Active Member

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    Congrats on the new lathe Mike, and welcome to the forum. Be sure and write up your work as you go, and don't hesitate to ask questions. We like lots of pictures!
     
  10. Campfire

    Campfire United States Iron Registered Member

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    Welcome! Having just finished getting my Logan 820 back together, there is so much information and great advice on here.
    I'm learning new stuff everyday and feel like I'm back in school again.

    You will have a blast getting into it and find all kinds of stuff to try and projects to make.
     
  11. Mr Mike

    Mr Mike United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thank you all for your responses. There is allot of information and many options to explore here on the HM forums as well as videos to watch, I don't want to get into an information overload.. So ill try and concentrate on issues as I cross them.

    There are some informative post made here about paint and rust removal from the bed, ill start looking into them as suggested.. Again thanks - Mike

    Lol Look what I found while inspecting the tail stock...
    LatheName.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
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  12. RandyM

    RandyM United States Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Cool, a lathe with your name on it. It was yours before you even knew it existed.
     
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  13. Mr Mike

    Mr Mike United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I"m well under way with the bed restoration, When I say well under way I mean really slow progress, Or should I say science project..
    The bed hasn't been touched yet because I've been testing out different water chemistries and sacrificial anode placement for the electrolysis portion of my project.

    I have plenty of photos, just need to write up what I've been up to when I complete this portion of the project.. I have a feeling this will take a bit of time to complete - Be back when I have made progress.
     
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  14. tq60

    tq60 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Electrolysis is simple.

    Battery charger and whatever iron or steel scrap for electrodes not stainless and some lye (what we use)

    The electrodes will look like corn dogs to they need cleaning every few hours.

    The lye will attack the paint to remove.

    If you want high speed go to sams club and pick up a 3 pack of grill cleaner from grill department.

    It is non aerosol pump type 3 quarts with sprayer for 9 bucks or so.

    This is oven cleaner and it will get grease and paint in a hurry.

    Do this OUTSIDE, spray on and let soak for 20 minutes then scrub with brush and rinse with water FROM A DISTANCE as this stuff burns and spray everything near as splatter will attack what it lands on.

    A few cycles and you will be bare metal.

    A night in the tank will get the surface rust.

    As soon as it comes out dry the ways and wax them with paste wax to prevent rusting.

    Tape then primer ASAP as it will rust fast.

    Many coats of paint will fill the iron surface.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
     
  15. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Washing soda (sodium carbonate, from supermarket or pottery supply) is usually used for the electrolyte rather than lye. If you do use lye it only takes a very small amount.
    You'll need some serious amps to do a piece as big as a lathe bed; a small DC welder would be a good choice.
    Rebar makes a good electrode, stainless electrodes give off chlorine which is nasty and toxic.
    Mark S.
    ps you may not like the finish this process gives- try a scrap piece first before you do the whole bed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
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  16. Mr Mike

    Mr Mike United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks guys for the input..

    TQ60 Thanks for play by play - electrolysis seems easy and super messy.. fun science, this project is my first attempt doing it.. I built a tank for the Lathe Bed and Supports last week and did allot of research & testing before dunking my Bed in.
    I learned allot doing this first test run of just 12hrs , I was considering Easy off oven cleaner for the paint - I'm not in a big rush so I thought id give the electrolysis a try first.. It worked like a charm getting the paint off. I still have some rust to deal with.

    The lathe bed came out pretty darn good for only being immersed for only 12 hours, there was some amount of rust removal but Id say 80 percent of the paint came off. I thought there would be some blackening of the metal but none was present.. there was no measurable difference in the bed ways that I could tell, Paint also came off where there was no anode nearby.. Bad Paint Job Maybe.

    Mark I went every where looking for the Arm & Hammer Washing soda, Big box stores, Grocery Market - I ended up using Ph up from a pool Supply Store 100% Sodium Carbonate.

    I tested both Rebar which was my first choice ( Inexpensive Vs Steel plate ) and Some 3/4 Steel Tubing as my anode, The difference was staggering between them.

    wholly mackerel you hit the nail on the head with the power source Issue - unfortunately I learned that really fast after my chargers safety circuit cut in after only 3 minutes of use. I did some checking with my amp meter and found my charger was pushing 18 amps instead of 10 amps.. Worried that my bed was just sitting in water I removed an anode set from the Circuit and the amps dropped, I also checked to see if reducing the amount of sodium carbonate in the water would have the same effect, which it did.. I was using 1 ounce per a gallon when I started - doing a couple more test I found that starting a new mixture of 15 gallons of water with just 3 ounces of Sodium Carbonate did the trick in lowering the Amp draw to around 8.7 amps.

    After a couple more hours I heard the dreaded click noise, I was like you have got to be kidding me - It was late so I removed an anode set from the circuit dropping the current to around a 5 amp load on the charger and let the bed cook over night...

    In the morning I went to check on my Frankenstein creation... I found It lives which I think gives me the title of backyard scientist.

    LatheBedCrud.jpg
    BeforeBath.jpg
    AfterBath.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  17. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Good job Herr Frankenstein !
    M
     
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  18. killswitch505

    killswitch505 United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Damn I'm gonna have to try that
     
  19. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    nice work and congratulations on the new lathe! :grin:
     
  20. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Damn where's my Logan?
    MS
     
  21. Mr Mike

    Mr Mike United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thank you all for the the likes..

    I made this electrolysis project much harder, longer and costly then it need be. Except for the science and fun I had there is no need to do what I did here in the photos, I just wanted to see the action as it was happening.

    It might be better to use a hard plastic kiddie Pool like the one used in Keith Rucker Youtube Videos... That would do the trick and for around $12.00 instead of $70.00 plus a half days work for my clear plastic tank - plus another 4 hours to turn down 21 rebar for making and holding the anodes.

    Some photos so you can see how it was done..

    LatheBath1.jpg
    LatheBath2.jpg
    LatheBathRebar3.jpg
    LatheBathSC.jpg
    LatheBathAmp.jpg
    SteelBar.jpg
    LatheBathRebarEnd.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

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  22. tq60

    tq60 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Is that ammeter dc rated?

    Most are only rated for AC but typical battery charger is not filtered so it may sort of work.

    We may need to try the pool stuff someday.

    We tried to find washing soda and given the data we had it was that or lye we use lye and pick it up at yard and estate sales.

    You have discovered the concentrate alters the current as does the surface area.

    We only use a couple electrodes in a 30 gallon trash can and rotate ends for longer items.

    Our SB 14.5 bed was too long and heavy but nasty greasy so we just used the grill cleaner on it.

    You did well with your first build.

    We suggest going online to ebay and getting a SHUNT for the ammeter as it is very accurate and less worry about dropping an instrument in the tank.

    They are basically a real low value high precision resistor that goes in circuit and give a multiplier output like 1 milli - volt per amp.

    Measure voltage with a hf voltmeter and you are good.

    We have car batteries for helping the dc power source as the current starts small then increases as the crud comes off but decreases when the corn dogs form.

    Get a shunt and scrap panel meter or get an old school automotive direct reading ammeter and use it as it allows you to know when to clean the electrodes


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2017 at 12:31 AM
  23. Mr Mike

    Mr Mike United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Sup TQ..

    No that Amp Meter is not DC compliant, No hall effect sensor.. But it works well with my 30 year old 12V Transformer Charger.
    Charger is set to charge the battery at 2 Amps in first photo then 10 Amps second photo - Note This Meter will not work on new electronic charger...!

    The Amp Meter may not be dead on accurate. But it told me exactly what I needed to know when I was doing the electrolysis and my chargers thermal protection cut in, which was will the amp draw lower if I lower the amount of Sodium Carbonate and or remove a bank of anodes, which it did.

    Most people no little about Electricity or how it works - Its very cool you noticed and asked, this old style transformers battery charger doesn't output pure DC current like a battery does, so any amp meter will register.

    And no the charger is not in contact with the lathe Bed

    Charger2Amps.jpg Charger10Amps.jpg

    I could not find Arm & Hammer Washing Soda anywhere which is also 100% sodium Carbonate, So I Googled it and found many product contain 100% Sodium Carbonate.

    LOL I have used Oven Cleaner to get paint off before, most notably my Ex-Girl friends name off my car door in High school, but I worried that it may damage the lathe.

    I heard previously on wood working forums about using Electrolysis to remove rust, before this whole lathe thing started and when it was suggested to me on this forum it made sense to me.

    Thank you for the first build complement, and your right I should be using a Shunt to check current. I'm a service Tech by trade with formal training in AC, Heating and electronics.

    Thanks for all the Info, I bet Your South Bend Is amazing, and you can make really cool stuff.
    personally I don't need a lathe but Ive always wanted one, I know ill never be even close to any of you guys in its use - but I can count so many time I've said to my self... if I only had a lathe I could fix that.. it was time to get one.

    Nice talking to ya - Mike S
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017 at 4:44 AM
  24. Mr Mike

    Mr Mike United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks for suggesting I do Electrolysis on the Logan lathe, It was a very fun informative Project. It did a good job removing most all the paint and rust, I am very happy with the results and will do rest of the lathe parts this way.

    Right now I would say the lathe bed and supports are ready for a finish, before I start that I was wondering if I put the Lathe Bed back in for a second electrolysis session, would that help with the aged staining of the ways and brighten them up a bit...?
    Thanks Mikey..!

    BedWayStain.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017 at 8:24 PM
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  25. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Sorry but ERR will not remove stains like that. Normally, stains do not affect function so you can just oil over them and ignore them. If they bug you, try some WD-40 and Scotchbrite and they will usually shine up. Not much metal is removed with this so it won't affect the function of the lathe.

    Glad ERR worked for you. Anything that will save you work is a good thing to know about!
     
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  26. Mr Mike

    Mr Mike United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks for the quick response Mike..

    The stains and nicks on the ways don't really bother me much, I just wanted to check before I begin the finishing work.
     
  27. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    You did a great job on de-rusting your lathe bed, Mike. I know how much work it was but it came out really clean. Your restoration will be beautiful, I'm sure. Keep us posted, please. Most of us love seeing an old machine brought back to life; I know she'll have a better life in your hands.
     
  28. Mr Mike

    Mr Mike United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Question my fellow citizens..!
    Is there any reason " Or is it blasphemy " If I paint this Logan Lathe Other then the factory Blue color..? If need be I will be happy to go with a factory color, just thought white would give it a more modern look like the newer lathes on the market.

    I was thinking of going with a Dark Grey for the base and chip catcher, and Satin White for the lathe body, Supports and Saddle with Handles and knobs Dark Grey to match the base.
    Also what Type / Brand of paint would you recommend, I was thinking a qrt can of Rust-Oleum Oil Based paint would do the trick. Or an amazing water based solution if anyone knows of a good one. Thanks Mike.
     
  29. Laytonnz

    Laytonnz New Zealand Active Member Active Member

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    Hey, nice work so far.

    I've just painted a harrison l5 white if you're interested in what it may look like, I have a thread in the antique and vintage section .

    I like it, it may not be to everyone's taste but that's okay, they don't have to look at it everyday.

    I used super etch for a primer then wattyl killrust metal epoxy for a top coat.

    Done 2 coats with a brush and wasn't geting a very desirable finish so brought a 200ml touch up gun and it came up mint!

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
     
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  30. Mr Mike

    Mr Mike United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Yes.. Yes I love it, Looks Fabulous... You have done a great job - all the problems you had with that lathe, you overcame them one at a time and now shes a beauty. Congrats..!
     

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