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Got My First Lathe... Logan 1875 - With Restoration.

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mikey

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#61
Doesn't seem to damage machined surfaces but you could tape over the ways and then spray it on. You do not need to use this but I do it for most stuff I treat with ERR and it works for me.
 

Glenn Brooks

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#62
+1 what Mikey said about Ospho (phosphoric acid) as part of your metal prep.

Ospho is a brand name I think. Sold in local hardware stores. I've used it around boats for 45 years and keep a gal jug sitting on my welding/grinding bench. I routinely use it to get rid of rust on old steel, and to clean up weldments before machining or painting. I usually apply it with a cheap throw away chip brush, then let it air dry overnight.

Phosphoric acid chemically changes iron oxide AKA 'Rust' to iron phospate, but is non reactive with the underlying steel and/ or iron . The iron phosphate acts a moisture barrier, preventing rust. You do need to wire brush the extra grey or black colored residue off the work before overcoating - not all of it. Just the loose powdery extra stuff.

As a side note, If you want a really good prime coat, you might consider using marine undercoater, such as Interlux Pre-kote (I think it is a one part polyurethane) or their one part epoxy Primecoat. This stuff adheres exceptionally well to metal surfaces. like fleas on a dog, as they say. Forms a second superb water tight barrier against rust formation.

As Mikey said, tape off your ways and other machined surfaces, before applying.

Glenn
 

Laytonnz

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#63
Hey Laytonnz..
I was thinking of adding a hardener to the oil based paint but I've never shot Oil ( well except Rattle Cans of Rust-oleum ) only Water based products. So I'm real worried about using my Compressor Hvlp Gun to spray it, Actually I'm thinking about buying the hand held Graco TrueCoat 360 airless.. because I don't have an air Desiccant filter for my Hvlp to stop moisture. and my regular airless Is a full size so it takes a Qrt just to fill the hose.. What do you recommend..?
Just use a disposable moisture trap, I use one on my gun.. they are only a few $ each.

But do wear a good respirator.

An airless sprayer will put far too much on, well our big Gracos do.. I only use a 200ml touch up gun for painting machines perfect for geting in small spaces and around all the handles ect without putting too much paint on

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 

Mr Mike

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#64
+1 what Mikey said about Ospho (phosphoric acid) as part of your metal prep.

Ospho is a brand name I think. Sold in local hardware stores. I've used it around boats for 45 years and keep a gal jug sitting on my welding/grinding bench. I routinely use it to get rid of rust on old steel, and to clean up weldments before machining or painting. I usually apply it with a cheap throw away chip brush, then let it air dry overnight.

Phosphoric acid chemically changes iron oxide AKA 'Rust' to iron phospate, but is non reactive with the underlying steel and/ or iron . The iron phosphate acts a moisture barrier, preventing rust. You do need to wire brush the extra grey or black colored residue off the work before overcoating - not all of it. Just the loose powdery extra stuff.

As a side note, If you want a really good prime coat, you might consider using marine undercoater, such as Interlux Pre-kote (I think it is a one part polyurethane) or their one part epoxy Primecoat. This stuff adheres exceptionally well to metal surfaces. like fleas on a dog, as they say. Forms a second superb water tight barrier against rust formation.

As Mikey said, tape off your ways and other machined surfaces, before applying.

Glenn
Hi Glen..

Is that acid mix still necessary for removing oil from parts after doing 18+hrs of electrolysis..? My understanding is the electrolysis does that already.

Or is it to just keep parts from flash rusting..?

Thanks Mike.
 

Glenn Brooks

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#65
Mike,

Yep, mostly to prevent further rust formation. In this case it becomes the first primer coat - stabilizing the freshly cleaned surface by sealing against moisture formation .- thus preventing oxidation. (Sometimes I do this just to preserve the steel for long term storage.)

It can also be used in lieu of electrolysis, but usually only after removing heavy rust and scale with some sort of manual surface grinding with a wheel and wire brush. The acid can only chemically react with the wetted surface, so sometimes doesn't penetrate deep enuf into a rusted surface to get rid of all the iron oxide.

As an aside, I have found it can act as a cleaner as well- cutting all sorts of grime and some oils, (but not all) from a variety of materials and surfaces - and its great for dissolving/cleaning welding by products. But I haven't found it particularily effective on fresh machine oils.

when I restored my old Dalton Lathe and Burke #4 horizontal mill, I stripped down the castings much as you have done. Then scrubbed and cleaned the bare metals with: 1) diesel, then 2) paint thinner, then 3) Ospho. Cleaning the residue each time. Then applied two coats of Interlux marine undercoat and two coats of finish. The thinner removes any left over diesel and diesel smears, and cuts the oils and trace debris that the diesel didn't remove. Vice versa, the diesel removes some rust and cuts the dried oils that the paint thinner doesn't work on.

BTW, a little trick - if you have a delay of a few days in prepping your raw castings, spray with WD 40, or slop on some clean diesel with a brush. this protects the bare metal surface against oxidation while you are maybe treating other parts. Then when you have a batch of components ready to paint, clean everything well with thinner and go right to your metal etching undercoat.

There's lots of ways to do all of this...

glenn
 
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Mr Mike

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#66
Mike,

Yep, mostly to prevent further rust formation. In this case it becomes the first primer coat - stabilizing the freshly cleaned surface by sealing against moisture formation .- thus preventing oxidation. (Sometimes I do this just to preserve the steel for long term storage.)

It can also be used in lieu of electrolysis, but usually only after removing heavy rust and scale with some sort of manual surface grinding with a wheel and wire brush. The acid can only chemically react with the wetted surface, so sometimes doesn't penetrate deep enuf into a rusted surface to get rid of all the iron oxide.

As an aside, I have found it can act as a cleaner as well- cutting all sorts of grime and some oils, (but not all) from a variety of materials and surfaces - and its great for dissolving/cleaning welding by products. But I haven't found it particularily effective on fresh machine oils.

when I restored my old Dalton Lathe and Burke #4 horizontal mill, I stripped down the castings much as you have done. Then scrubbed and cleaned the bare metals with: 1) diesel, then 2) paint thinner, then 3) Ospho. Cleaning the residue each time. Then applied two coats of Interlux marine undercoat and two coats of finish. The thinner removes any left over diesel and diesel smears, and cuts the oils and trace debris that the diesel didn't remove. Vice versa, the diesel removes some rust and cuts the dried oils that the paint thinner doesn't work on.

BTW, a little trick - if you have a delay of a few days in prepping your raw castings, spray with WD 40, or slop on some clean diesel with a brush. this protects the bare metal surface against oxidation while you are maybe treating other parts. Then when you have a batch of components ready to paint, clean everything well with thinner and go right to your metal etching undercoat.

There's lots of ways to do all of this...

glenn
Hello Glen..

Thanks for the Information.. Its always good to have extra tricks up ones sleeve.

I think that for my situation and geographical location stopping " Flash Rust " would be the most beneficial to me, once the part has dried it would take a good year for clean covered bare metal parts to show any signs of rust here Las Vegas, On average we have 20 days rain - about 4 inches a year..

I work under a roofed but open air porch attached to the house, I would be concerned spraying acid in the patio area, but if it has no effect on vegetation I could do it middle of the back yard..?

Good day Sir.
 

Mr Mike

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#67
Got a spray kit with a detail sprayer from Harbor freight " It holds 4 ouncs "- It's orifice is only 1.0, I also picked up a Dryer/Filter for it.
Ill do some testing and practice on some scrap with the oil based paint and report back the results. lol had warnings stickers all over saying to clean gun if idle more then 5 minutes, between coats and/or refilling the paint cup, lol it used to say 20 minutes on other's I have bought - Item 60239.

SmallSprayGun.jpg
SmallSprayGun2.jpg
 

Bob Korves

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#68
had warnings stickers all over saying to clean gun if idle more then 5 minutes, between coats and/or refilling the paint cup, lol it used to say 20 minutes on other's I have bought
5 minutes would be long enough if spraying lacquer with a hot thinner. Oil based, 20 minutes is fine. A clogged nozzle is a PITA.
 

Mr Mike

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#69
Next time you talk to your buddy at the paint store, ask him what he thinks of spraying on a 50:50 mix of Phosphoric Acid and water onto metal that has just come out of an electrolytic bath. Stops all flash rust, etches the metal and can be painted over. Been using it for years and never had an issue with paint lifting and such but he's the paint expert and I would defer to him.
I stopped back at PPG and got my paint & supplies, while there I asked about the 50/50 Phosphoric Acid & water trick... Same guy I talked to before, He said he's not heard of that trick.

I think I'm going to give this a shot too thou, I have allot of parts left to do electrolysis on, when I say allot, I mean the whole lathe still - minus the bed.. so I have plenty of time to put the trick to use..
Please give me the safety of use run down... I'm guessing use a small spray bottle, Gloves, Eye protection and spray away from your self over an area where runoff will have little or no effect like a lawn.

Thanks Mike.
 
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Mr Mike

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#70
5 minutes would be long enough if spraying lacquer with a hot thinner. Oil based, 20 minutes is fine. A clogged nozzle is a PITA.
Hi Bob.. Ill be spraying Oil without additional hardeners hopefully today, so 20 minutes sounds sooo much better :) Wish me Luck..
 

Bob Korves

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#71
Hi Bob.. Ill be spraying Oil without additional hardeners hopefully today, so 20 minutes sounds sooo much better :) Wish me Luck..
Wrapping a solvent soaked rag around the spray nozzle, followed by a plastic bag or similar, between spraying, would probably help to keep things from drying up.
 

dlane

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#72
I had that set of spray guns , after three uses they leaked from the trigger and everywhere else thay could leak, into the trash they went . Hopefully they have better seals nowadays
 

mikey

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#73
I stopped back at PPG and got my paint & supplies, while there I asked about the 50/50 Phosphoric Acid & water trick... Same guy I talked to before, He said he's not heard of that trick.

I think I'm going to give this a shot too thou, I have allot of parts left to do electrolysis on, when I say allot, I mean the whole lathe still - minus the bed.. so I have plenty of time to put the trick to use..
Please give me the safety of use run down... I'm guessing use a small spray bottle, Gloves, Eye protection and spray away from your self over an area where runoff will have little or no effect like a lawn.

Thanks Mike.
I have a spray bottle with diluted "The Must for Rust", which is just the brand of Phosphoric Acid that I prefer, diluted with water in a 50:50 ratio. Once the part comes out of the ERR bath, I scrub it down with a medium grit Scotchbrite pad and I keep it wet until I get all the scum and paint off and then do a final rinse. I let the bulk of the water run off and then spray the part down with the diluted PA mix and set it aside to dry. This leaves a whitish layer on the part that prevents any rusting and it will last for months or even years if left undisturbed. I have an Emmert 4A machinist vise that I did this to about a decade ago and its sitting in a box until I get around to painting it - zero rust.

When I'm ready to prime, I wipe the part down with a rag lightly moistened with the same diluted mix and this dries in seconds. Then I spray on the primer and paint as usual. Sometimes I don't even bother wiping it; I just prime right on top of it, which is what the manufacturer recommends.

You should use the normal precautions you would take when working with any acid, even though Phosphoric Acid as supplied for this application is pretty weak. I use a respirator mask with cartridges, safety glasses and neoprene gloves and rubber boots when working with any acid but I admit that I've had to casually spray a little on a part and done it with no protection at all and had no issues; I do not recommend you do stupid things like this, though. Read the manufacturer's instructions and you'll be fine.

I've been using this method for a very long time. I've done very small parts to anvils to entire lawnmowers and never had any issues with the paint, nor have I had anything rust if the paint is not damaged. This stuff just works.

Over 40 years ago, I asked an auto body guy what they used to prep bare metal before painting their custom paint jobs. These guys did beautiful work on show cars. He told me they used Jasco Metal Etch, which turned out to be Phosphoric Acid. So, nothing new here, Mike.
 

Mr Mike

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#74
I had that set of spray guns , after three uses they leaked from the trigger and everywhere else thay could leak, into the trash they went . Hopefully they have better seals nowadays
Hello dlane.
I've had issues like that in the past, all you can do is tighten the packing nut some, if that don't work then ya in the trash it goes.. Personally I think it should be federal law for 10 years after a product hits the market that repair parts be available for easily repaired items, we seriously need to stop this everything is disposable mentality, fortunately I have some backup Spray guns that I can use In a pinch if things go south.. Who knows I may have a good experience with theses guns.
 

Mr Mike

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#75
I have a spray bottle with diluted "The Must for Rust", which is just the brand of Phosphoric Acid that I prefer, diluted with water in a 50:50 ratio. Once the part comes out of the ERR bath, I scrub it down with a medium grit Scotchbrite pad and I keep it wet until I get all the scum and paint off and then do a final rinse. I let the bulk of the water run off and then spray the part down with the diluted PA mix and set it aside to dry. This leaves a whitish layer on the part that prevents any rusting and it will last for months or even years if left undisturbed. I have an Emmert 4A machinist vise that I did this to about a decade ago and its sitting in a box until I get around to painting it - zero rust.

When I'm ready to prime, I wipe the part down with a rag lightly moistened with the same diluted mix and this dries in seconds. Then I spray on the primer and paint as usual. Sometimes I don't even bother wiping it; I just prime right on top of it, which is what the manufacturer recommends.

You should use the normal precautions you would take when working with any acid, even though Phosphoric Acid as supplied for this application is pretty weak. I use a respirator mask with cartridges, safety glasses and neoprene gloves and rubber boots when working with any acid but I admit that I've had to casually spray a little on a part and done it with no protection at all and had no issues; I do not recommend you do stupid things like this, though. Read the manufacturer's instructions and you'll be fine.

I've been using this method for a very long time. I've done very small parts to anvils to entire lawnmowers and never had any issues with the paint, nor have I had anything rust if the paint is not damaged. This stuff just works.

Over 40 years ago, I asked an auto body guy what they used to prep bare metal before painting their custom paint jobs. These guys did beautiful work on show cars. He told me they used Jasco Metal Etch, which turned out to be Phosphoric Acid. So, nothing new here, Mike.
Thanks for the info Mike.

I tried to look it up and there are lots of products that have Must For Rust - Krudd Cutter being one... could you shoot me a link to one you use please so I can get some ordered..
Thanks for your help - Love learning new things.
 

mikey

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#76
Thanks for the info Mike.

I tried to look it up and there are lots of products that have Must For Rust - Krudd Cutter being one... could you shoot me a link to one you use please so I can get some ordered..
Thanks for your help - Love learning new things.
Yup, Krud Cutter makes the one I use. You should be able to get it at your local hardware store. They sell it in liquid and gel form and both work really well. You can use it to remove the mill scale on mild steel, too.
 

Mr Mike

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#77
Wrapping a solvent soaked rag around the spray nozzle, followed by a plastic bag or similar, between spraying, would probably help to keep things from drying up.
I do that with water based products, I fill a cup with water and keep the spray head submerged then when ready I pull the handle enough to start the air flow to blow out the Air Passages and wipe it off and keep on spraying, ill try that with this oil stuff and see if it works.. good thinking..! Thanks for reminding me Bob.
 

Mr Mike

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#78
Things didn't go as fast as I would have liked today, I had to run and get supplies I thought I had on hand like.. Common clean up stuff and my pop up canopy for shade.
After I got that handled I started prepping the bed by wiping it down with acetone to remove any remaining oils - so the tape and primer will adhere well. Finally about 1:30 pm I started tapping which took me over two hours to properly tape off and get ready for primer. The truck races started at 5:00 pm so I had to wait till after we got home to prime it..

LathePaintPrep.jpg

Man, thought taping this bed off would be a breeze - Nope my age is beginning to show..
One of the things that I'm thrilled about is how nice the ways came out with the extra effort, It helps encourage me to do the best job I can.
LathePaintPrep2.jpg

Two coats of primer completed, Tomorrow I will lightly sand then re-prime and paint. The center of the bed will be a dark gray matching the
stand and chip tray and a low sheen white for the rest of the bed. If all goes well I should have the Bed and supports done tomorrow.
FirstPrime.jpg
 

mikey

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#79
She looks great, Mike! The ways look awesome, too. It has been very cool to watch as you learn and experiment with this project. That's what I love about this hobby - it helps us to learn and grow. When a hobby machinist says, "I can do that", he very likely can.
 

Mr Mike

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#80
She looks great, Mike! The ways look awesome, too. It has been very cool to watch as you learn and experiment with this project. That's what I love about this hobby - it helps us to learn and grow. When a hobby machinist says, "I can do that", he very likely can.
Hey Mikey.

Well its certainly nice having allot of folks around with cool tricks up there sleeves... I definitely appreciate all the help I'm getting from You, Bob, La, Glen and everyone thats for sure. Thank you for sharing your knowledge..!
 

Mr Mike

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#81
I got the bed completed.. The new spray guns worked out just ok with the PGP oil paint. The paint was a 2500 fast dry deep base, the Orifice was to small 1.0 on the detail gun for the viscosity of paint - that however worked really well for the Dark Gray because I needed it to be slow and accurate. But for the white I had to switch to the big gun for the second coat which was to slow - but a little faster with the 1.4 orifice, knew I should have gone with the 1.8 oh well.

I also switched and used the hi gloss white, because when I read the directions for the low sheen paint, It stated dry to touch after 4 hours and additional coats after 24 hours, I am doing this out doors so I had to pass on it.

The supports need more work before they are ready for paint, so I just did the bed today. There is orange peel - but it helps hide some of the imperfections in the bed. The paint job came out pretty Ok but ill use the 1.8 on the supports and see how that goes... If it goes well Ill give it a thumbs up using these guns with this paint, If not then Ill buy a hand held airless to do the pedestals and chip tray.

I did not do the testing I would normally do with a new paint elixir I'm not familiar with.. I just got very lucky the paint was forgiving - I did ask the paint people at PGP if there would be an Issue using a 1.0 orifice detail gun, they told me it would be slow but should be ok, The flow knob was wide open air at 25 Psi - there was no sputter or spiting and was going on even, but it felt more like air brushing then painting.

I inspected it after a couple hrs of drying, Its smooth all around with no dull dry looking spots so If it passed the fingernail test Friday I think we're golden.

BedUnderTape.jpg

For those wondering how I got a nice crisp paint line between the Dark Grey and White without taping, thats the reason for the 10" long bolts, They stand atop saw horse's without any obstruction to the ground so there is no blow back of the paint to contaminate the previous color. as long as your not putting it on so thick that it runs this will be the natural result.
BedUnderTape2.jpg
BedPaint1.jpg
BedPaint2.jpg
BedPaint3.jpg
 
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Laytonnz

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#82
Nice work! Looks good, I had the same issue with a 1.5 and added some turps and turned the psi up on the compressor, I got more overspray but had a decent fan.
 

Mr Mike

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#83
Nice work! Looks good, I had the same issue with a 1.5 and added some turps and turned the psi up on the compressor, I got more overspray but had a decent fan.
Hi La...

My first issue is there are no coating instructions on the can.. Just warnings all over - which clearly states for professional use only, not for residential use. Obviously I should not be using it - But I did tell them I needed a paint that would hold up to Oils and Coolants for use on a Lathe... Not much info online either.

I'm doing the best I can here with what little info I have.. I got my fingers crossed that the 1.8 will have better results, I also have a 2.0 gun I could use - wonder if I should just try that instead..?
The nice thing about this paint is the re-coat time which has to be done within 2.5 hours, and dries to the touch in under 30 minutes.. the primer I used can be top coated almost immediately but before 24hrs, nice open window..!

The negative about this paint is you really need a spray booth for the fumes or be out doors in a large open area - Nasty stuff - regular mask wont help, Definitely not in a Garage.
 
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Laytonnz

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#84
What i would do is download the MSDS - material data safety sheet, it should give all relevant info on product use.

If you can't find the MSDS online maybe ask the paint rep, they should have one in store. It should tell you how much you can thin for spray application.

That's nice and quick the stuff I used took ages! Over a week to be recoatable at probably. .. uhh 12 degrees during the day 5 overnight.
 

Mr Mike

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What i would do is download the MSDS - material data safety sheet, it should give all relevant info on product use.

If you can't find the MSDS online maybe ask the paint rep, they should have one in store. It should tell you how much you can thin for spray application.

That's nice and quick the stuff I used took ages! Over a week to be recoatable at probably. .. uhh 12 degrees during the day 5 overnight.
Hi La..
I did search for and found a PDF with directions for the paint.. and it stated under the thinning options --> should not need thinning... lol
Well I'm sol for now paint wise so - the painting portion of the project is coming to a halt till I can figure out my painting issues.. I love the Bright White color but hate the gloss...

I'm currently looking for a Matt, Low Sheen, Eggshell finish to redo my lathe bed.. I'm just not happy with the results..

I have my want list regardless of whether its realistic or not.
1. Matt finish.
2. Can be sprayed. ( Even if I need to buy a better Pro Detail Gun )
3. Can be re-coated in less then 8 hrs.
4. between 30 to 60 minutes dry to the touch. ( I have no choice but to spray out doors ) so I'm at the mercy of the weather.
5. None yellowing Bright White. ( most oils yellow over time ) but they have modified ones that don't.
6. Water cleanup preferred but not required. ( They make an oil modified water based paint ) I'm looking into this.
7. Oil & Hot Chip Resistant.

See I'm not asking for much :)
 

Mr Mike

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#86
Hello peoples,
I'm having to go back over my lathe paint choices and redo some work, In a bind I settled for spraying a gloss coat on the bed... I made the exception because I thought I would be wasting a weekend - I know to stick to my guns, I didn't and now I'm not happy with my choice. So I need to take a couple steps back for peace of mind and deal with it now rather then later. My painting portion of the project is on hold till I solve the paint Issue. Ill still be working on other stuff.

The bed supports are going back in the for a 2nd electrolytic bath, They are in good enough condition that I could prime and paint them, but I would like to do some more electrolytic testing.

I'm doing the supports individually, one will be with 1/3 cup Sodium Carbonate and the other with just plain tap water. Both will have close to a 1.5 amps flow, to see what difference the washing soda makes if any.

FeetPit1.jpg

Lots of pitting in the area of both supports where right angles meet.

FeetPit2.jpg


Fresh tap water only to start and you can see the scrubbing bubbles at work. 5 pm.

FeetPitBath.jpg


Added 1/3 cup Sodium Carbonate and mixed to get to about 1.5 amps, withing 15 minutes the water turned colors. 5:30 pm

FeetPitBath2.jpg


Elapsed time 2 hours 7 pm. You can see a froth starting to build.

FeetPitBath3.jpg

Elapsed time 5.5 hours 10:30 pm.

FeetPitBath4.jpg

This is a very interesting photo below. Billions of micro sized bubbles can be seen coming of the bottom and top of the bed support. ( site restriction on photos like this are a shame ), Not all but some bubbles below the anode are carrying what looks like rust.. None of the bubbles above the anode seem to have this feature.

I also have some cool video showing this in action, To bad it cant be posted directly to this site.

BubbleBath.jpg

Elapsed time 14 hours 7 am. amps read 1.55 - Dont know why yet but the amps seem to drop then rais over time.
FeetPitBath5.jpg

Elapsed time 22 hours 3 pm. The photos below show the before and after, the support came out looking great.. but there are still small black pits still left. I have no complaints and really feel this is supirour in every way to harsh chemical to remove rust as long as there are no time constraints.

I have a couple other ideas in mind - maybe pairing this and Evapo-Rust... Use electrolysis to remove all the massive rust and Evapo-Rust to get the remainder... I cant test that just yet or on these supports, but will in a future test.

FeetPitBath6.jpg

Before the second electrolysis session. The first run was with the lathe bed.
SupportOneBeforBath.jpg

The after shot looks Great, No visible rust just tiny black heavily pitted areas.
Its ready for paint but I have one more test with these supports - Id like to see if an extended length of time in electrolysis will remove the black from the pitted areas. Ill do both supports for that 2 day test. the total amount of time the supports were subjected to electrolysis at that point will be about 3 1/2 days.

SupportOneAfterBath.jpg

This concludes the test for an electrolysis bath with 1/3 cup of Sodium Carbonate. The next support will be done with just tape water but at about the same amp flow. It may be a wast of time.. and may have no desirable effect cosmetically in the second bed supports outcome, If thats the case then we will know to use the Sodium Carbonate only as a current flow regulator of sorts.
 
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Mr Mike

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#87
Second bed support, tap water only. electrolysis started at 4 pm.

The tank was completely cleaned and filled with fresh tap water, you can see an orange glow begin to start
around the second lathe bed support with in just a couple minutes.

SessionTwoStart.jpg

Elapsed time 30 minutes, the whole tank is orange.

SessionTwoHalfHr.jpg

Elapsed time 4 1/2 hours 8:30 pm. The amps have dropped, and a thick froth is building very similar to the previous time laps lathe bed support post.
the water in the tank is clearing up as seen in the next photo.

SessionTwoFourHrs.jpg

SessionTwoFourHrsClearWater.jpg

Elapsed time 9 hours 1 am. Amps have gone down and there is very little change.
The water has cleared even more, to the point where you can see thru it.
If I had to bet on it i'd say my parts are as done..! That will have to be checked out in another test.

SessionTwoEightHrs.jpg

SessionTwoEightHrs2.jpg

Elapsed time 15 hours 7 am. Amps have gone down more, The water is not as clear this morning.
You can see the rear Anode in the photo below this one taken at the same time, but not much past that. The froth looks normal as compared to all others.

SessionTwo15Hrs.jpg

SessionTwo15Hrs2.jpg

Elapsed time 22.5 hours 2:30 pm. Amps have gone up some.
The froth is the same as expected, the water is getting cloudy as seen in the photo below this one..
You can just make out the rear Anode.

SessionTwo21Hrs.jpg

SessionTwo21Hrs2.jpg

This support was done using plain water.

SessionTwoComp1.jpg

This support was done using Sodium Carbonate. There is virtually no difference between the two.

SessionTwoComp2.jpg

This ends this time laps posting, I've had fun and learned allot from doing this, but now this has left me with even more questions unanswered. will this madness ever end :)
 
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Bob Korves

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#88
Second bed support, tap water only. electrolysis started at 4 pm.

The tank was completely cleaned and filled with fresh tap water, you can see an orange glow begin to start
around the second lathe bed support with in just a couple minutes.

View attachment 243431

Elapsed time 30 minutes, the whole tank is orange.

View attachment 243430

Elapsed time 4 1/2 hours 8:30 pm. The amps have dropped, and a thick froth is building very similar to the previous time laps lathe bed support post.
the water in the tank is clearing up as seen in the next photo.

View attachment 243428


View attachment 243429

This is a time laps Post please check back later for more updates on this tap water only electrolysis test.
I did not know that you could do electrolysis using just tap water. Clear, pure water is a poor conductor. I thought an electrolyte was needed for better current flow. You certainly seem to be proving otherwise.
http://www.waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/swamp/docs/cwt/guidance/3130en.pdf
 

Mr Mike

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#89
I did not know that you could do electrolysis using just tap water. Clear, pure water is a poor conductor. I thought an electrolyte was needed for better current flow. You certainly seem to be proving otherwise.
http://www.waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/swamp/docs/cwt/guidance/3130en.pdf
Hi Bob our tap water is not even close to pure here, besides being very hard water they add chemicals like fluoride and other goodies, and depending water softeners will add trace amounts too.
If you look at the post with the Sodium Carbonate you can see my anodes ( 43" steel bars ) are farther away from the bed support - almost flush with the edge of the tank, I had to move them closer to the bed support get the amp flow up in this run.

It is true that the purer the water, the higher the resistance, making it harder for electrons to flow. So your thinking is absolutely correct - The more electrolyte there is in the water the more conductive it is.
 
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Mr Mike

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#90
We are back up to speed on the project. I used acetone to quickly to remove the uncured paint back to bare metal.
I then used filling primer and sanded a couple times to improve the finish quality, and bring the lathe back to a near new condition.

StripBedPaint.jpg

It didn't take to long. maybe a couple of hours to get the bed ready for painting.

StripBedPaintReprime.jpg

You can see in the not yet sanded photo below the actual condition of the bed support.
This was the worst side of them all, but both bed supports had pitting issues on all four sides.

PrimeFillBedSupport.jpg

This is the after sanding photo below, and the product I used to smooth out and level the lathe bed, and both bed supports.
You can see by the amount of primer left after block sanding how bad the pitted areas are...
This primer was only use to fill and sand, another thiner harder primer was used for painting because the
filler primer will not dry as hard.

PrimFillSandBedSupports.jpg

I used a washer seen below, that was close in size to support seats to cut the tape, making it
easy to peal off... then only have to sand the tiny area left painted.

TapeBedSupport.jpg

The Lathe bed and supports came out looking almost factory fresh. There is still a few pitted areas left that I didn't tidy up.
I wasn't shooting for that new pristine car look, more like - how long has that lathe been sitting in an unopened box look.

TapeBedSupportPainted.jpg

These are the products I used in the photo below. I wanted to try, but failed at using a more robust product.
I returned to using what I'm familiar and have been very successful using in the past on other projects. so don't laugh.
They are oil based, but may or may not be able hold up to lathe abuse.

StripBedPaintSupplies.jpg

To finished the lathe bed and supports I used.
2 Coats of filling primer and sanding between coats, about two hours wait.
After the final sanding I used 1 Coat of the thiner automotive primer.
15 minutes after priming I used 2 coats of the flat white, 15 minutes apart.
Then 15 minutes after the final white coat, I used 3 coats of the satin clear, 15 minutes apart.
Painting out doors but not in direct sunlight, It will take a few days to get to hard,
The filling primer did a good job of filling the pits, machine marks and small dings.

StripedRePaintedBedSupportCourner2.jpg

Unfortunately the photo below does not show how nice it turned out, just the progress.

StripedRePaintedBedSupport.jpg


So basically after an additional week I'm back where I left off at... But I'm much happier I stopped an took the time to get it right. was it necessary, probably not but every now and again my OCD kicks in.

Next is the part I'm kinda dreading, the pedestals and chip pan are next.. Actually the chip pan looks to be in great shape, but theres allot of rust at the bottom of the pedestals and the right door is in bad shape.
I'm probably gonna have to get some help with the door issue. I could bend the top of the door back but the bottom is a whole other story. It has a compound bend in it that I'm not sure can be straitened.
I'll remove the door and take it to a sheet metal shop, have it fixed or replaced if I cant repair it my self.

At least painting these wont be to big an issue, I have a full size airless to paint them up lickety-split with the Dark Grey paint.. First Ill clean them up and remove all hardware out of them, and see just how bad they are.
Hmm what to do about the rust...

PedestalBentDoor.jpg
 

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