First machine Lathe or Mill?

[Ultradog MN]

Sorry Dave, LOL. This is a direct illustration of my problem with the words “just” and ”easily”. For you guys with a ton of tooling and decades of experience this may be easy. But for us guys just starting out with limited resources making a simple bushing on a mill is not easy. I was making bushings before anything else so it was a while before I decided I REALLY needed a mill. But I already had a drill press. And I have still done no milling on the lathe.

Like so many times where guys are asking for help each guys focus is so different it’s all just flinging stuff on the proverbial wall and see what sticks with the OP. The right answer is up to the individual.

One of my major criteria was I was making my own powder coat booth and wanted to be able to make my own special dies for my bead roller. I bought my 9x20 for less than they wanted for the sets of dies. And of course it just snowballed from there because it’s often hard to know what you don’t know. I have never bought a tool before I knew what I wanted it for so I could research back from what I needed to make and find out what machine or tool made it.

The point I was making earlier is that you Can do more than turning on a lathe or milling on a mill. You have to be creative but you Can do it. Of course if you are one of those guys who run to an internet forum and ask detailed instructions on how to do something and then you run to harbor freight and buy some cheap gizmo to do it for you, you likely don't have a high enough spatial apptitude - which it takes to be a machinist - or you just don't have the gumption to figure it out on your own.
It is this reason they don't allow discussions about China made machinery over on Practical Machinist. Because if a guy is uninformed enough to buy that kind of machinery they aren't going to understand an explanation of how to make something on it, much less understand how to stretch the machine's envelope a little and get something done.

 

[SouthernChap]

Of course if you are one of those guys who run to an internet forum and ask detailed instructions on how to do something and then you run to harbor freight and buy some cheap gizmo to do it for you, you likely don't have a high enough spatial apptitude - which it takes to be a machinist - or you just don't have the gumption to figure it out on your own.

Well, that might be true in some cases. There are genuinely lazy people out there and people who literally will never get why a gear and a lever are fundamentally the same mechanism.

That said, it can be really quite difficult to tell the difference (even face to face, never mind on a forum) between laziness or lack of intellectual capacity on the one hand and a lack of self-confidence in beginners on the other.

Also, certainly in the UK, and I suspect in other Western countries, engineering style creativity just isn't nurtured as much these days. A lot of people simply aren't familiar with a 'workaround' style of thought and it takes time and practice to learn to think like that, even if the person has the capability.

It is this reason they don't allow discussions about China made machinery over on Practical Machinist. Because if a guy is uninformed enough to buy that kind of machinery they aren't going to understand an explanation of how to make something on it, much less understand how to stretch the machine's envelope a little and get something done.

Really? I mean yes, for some that might genuinely be the reason and I can attest to how frustrating it is, in any forum based on a practical subject, seeing the same basic questions come up time and time again.

However, after about 30 years of experiencing interaction with people on the internet, (especially in technical forums), I'd tend towards a rather less complimentary explanation.

 

[David2011]

Like the OP I’m an R/C guy, building and flying medium to giant sized airplanes. I’ve built two street rods; don’t know much about motorcycles. For R/C I rarely use the mill. Most of the R/C work is related to propeller/spinner mounting, axle/wheel bushings, engine standoffs and similar turned hardware. When I did gunsmithing the milling machine was used far more than the lathe. For automotive purposes it’s a tossup in my mind. Plenty of need for bushings, spacers and the like but a mill is great for making brackets and adapters. Having a mill as a precision drill press is pretty sweet, too.

I sold my mill and lathe when I moved due to the cost of moving them. They were purchased from a friend as a package so I started out owning both. The first replacement was a lathe simply because someone that I knew was selling his and upgrading. I quickly decided that having only a lathe was like having 40% of a home machine shop. OTOH, having only a mill, for myself, would be about 30% of a home shop. Having both is more like 90% of a complete shop. They compliment each other.

 

[mmcmdl]

It is this reason they don't allow discussions about China made machinery over on Practical Machinist. Because if a guy is uninformed enough to buy that kind of machinery they aren't going to understand an explanation of how to make something on it, much less understand how to stretch the machine's envelope a little and get something done.

I can't and won't say anything bad about PM , it's where I started out . When programming , modeling and all the other cad/cam I was doing , it was a great site . They are not the friendly site to newbies or obvious questions though . My trade changed in 99 and over time I lost interest in their site and the BS involved , but I do understand why they are what they are . Most of these guys are doing this for a living and not a hobby . I don't dislike overseas equipment but push old iron because sometimes people learn when having to fix a problem .

There are 100s of sites on FB now , anything you could think of . I am on many but not really participating but rather looking for specific machines for sale . These members are very friendly and most would go out of there way answering questions . Just look for them and I am NOT a large FB fan , but take advantage of what they have to offer . Haven't been on PM in at least 10 years and have no reason to go back . The work I do these days has +/- half a broomstick tolerance . You get the picture .

 

[David2011]

It is this reason they don't allow discussions about China made machinery over on Practical Machinist. Because if a guy is uninformed enough to buy that kind of machinery they aren't going to understand an explanation of how to make something on it, much less understand how to stretch the machine's envelope a little and get something done.

I’ve owned Taiwanese and Chinese lathes and was trained on American made South Bends. I’ve had two Taiwanese mills and used Bridgeports. I don’t dare comment on Practical Machinist how I’ve exceeded the intended capacity of my less-than-awesome Grizzly 11x27 but its country of origin has never been a limitation. I recently chucked up some heavy bronze pieces that were over 5” in diameter and almost 6” long to chase their 3”x10 tpi threads. That was a big load for the little lathe and challenged the horsepower available. Then I had to turn .006” off the OD of a firing pin for a 3” anti-aircraft gun so it would fit the bushing after it was hard chromed. Next is a 1-1/4” x 29” shaft that has an area that needs to be turned down and sleeved. A Monarch 10EE would be equally challenging for these jobs. It’s more about the operator than the machine. The same inexperienced user with an old SB would be just as challenged.

 

[Just for fun]

That’s the common answer but nobody says why. I am more inclined for a mill but when I get one or the other I know Ill be like darn I need the other machine to complete my task.
Didn’t the old WW2 submarines have lathes on them? With spinning gear that makes sense. Plus they didn’t have bench top mills back then…

I haven't read through all of the responses. But I tend to use the lathe more when working on my Bronco project. Recently made the pucks to check the straightness of the rear differential. Made a tapered shim for the drag link to tie rod connection. Turned down the rear axle bearing retainers (while on the axles) because they were hitting the seals. I have made two custom seal drivers, one to install a front main seal on Ford 4.6L with the radiator still installed.

I have also made a new hinge bushing for the door on my RV refrigerator. Long story but I made an adapter to go between a water meter setter and a garden hose to bleed the air out of system.

I made a little connecting device to attach a wire wheel on a long rod to clean the inside of a Ford 9" housing.

The lathe is just more usefull in the day to day things that we need to do.

Hope that helps. By the way my lathe is a PM-1236T not a real big one but a really nice one and high quality.

Tim

 

[Just for fun]

And for the mill, so far all I used it for on the Bronco project was to modify the timing chain cover so the bolt holes would line up better with the oil pan.

You need both but I think the lathe is more useful around car projects!

Tim

 

[wrmiller]

My 'need to do' list had me on my mill way more often than I was on my lathe (10:1?). I did mostly gun/pistol smithing and stopped working on cars and other heavier things a long time ago.

Before I got sick I had a PM935TS with VFD and DRO and a PM1340GT with VFD and DRO. Both Taiwan machines and capable of very good work. I sold my machines and most everything else in the shop to a airline pilot who was getting ready to retire and liked building long range rifles.

About two years after I got sick (and didn't die), I was actually getting better and I really started missing my machines.

Sometimes life just sucks...LOL.

 

[MikeInOr]

If you are buying new machines I would definitely go for the mill first. For your other hobbies, especially metal working, I think you will get much more use out of the mill.

Most every machine in my hobby shop was purchased used. So it was just a matter of which machine presented itself first, which in my case was a lathe. My first lathe, which was gifted to me 30 years ago, was an Atlas 12" that had literally been through a flood and survived quite well but it did not have a gear box or change gears. Someone on here posted a CL add for four 13" South Bend lathes being sold by a school district for $1000 each which was just a few hundred dollars more than I was looking at paying for a quick change gear box for me Atlas. I purchased one as they were only a few hours away. I then found an Enco knee mill in incredible shape at a fair price.

 

[Dabbler]

What should be my first machine? I really want both but I don’t have enough.

Here's another take on trying to get you going... You cannot predict what you are going to be doing, until you begin to develop the skills that go with the machines. However choosing between a lathe and a mill is like saying which arm you prefer, "left or right"? With only one, you can do a lot. But with both you can do so much more, and better.

The more important question is to ask what type of machines to avoid... So here is that advice:

Some guys get great use out of those tiny 7X22 or 8X30 desktop offshore lathes for CHEAP. Surprisingly, they are better suited for a guy with tons of experience, as you are always trying to accommodate their weaknesses. Instead, choose a used Southbend or similar (with help from a friend or member here) - you'll be paying less up front, and will recover more of your $$ if you feel the need to upgrade or change. A beginner needs a tight-gibbed, somewhat rigid lathe. (that is, unless you have a bigger budget - then my advice would be very different)

However I agree with @mmcmdl - the mill is used far more by me than my lathe. 5-10X is about right. What to avoid here is any round column mill. Not even a genuine Bridgeport with the round section instead of a dovetail ram. They are a pain to use and adjust, and less rigid, and have lower resale value.