Considering a Grizzly G0709 14 x 40 Gunsmith Lathe

[Senna]

The general rule of thumb is that people who have them like them, and people that don't have them, don't like them.

And people who've used both a Chinese lathe and an American, Japanese, or European industrial quality lathe prefer the latter.

I look at it like either getting a brand new Chevy Cruze or a used BMW M3. Same money, infinitely better user experience and satisfaction. But if all you've ever driven is a Cruze then you don't know how much better the M3 is.

To the OP, do yourself a favor and at least look at a used industrial quality lathe. Even with shipping cost from anywhere in America ($400-$600 IME) added you still stand to get a ton more machine for the same or less money.

(Says the guy with a Craftsman lathe!!!))

 

[epanzella]

Quote Originally Posted by epanzella
The general rule of thumb is that people who have them like them, and people that don't have them, don't like them.

And people who've used both a Chinese lathe and an American, Japanese, or European industrial quality lathe prefer the latter.
I look at it like either getting a brand new Chevy Cruze or a used BMW M3. Same money, infinitely better user experience and satisfaction. But if all you've ever driven is a Cruze then you don't know how much better the M3 is.

To the OP, do yourself a favor and at least look at a used industrial quality lathe. Even with shipping cost from anywhere in America ($400-$600 IME) added you still stand to get a ton more machine for the same or less money.

(Says the guy with a Craftsman lathe!!!))

Case in point.

 

[Senna]

Quote Originally Posted by epanzella
The general rule of thumb is that people who have them like them, and people that don't have them, don't like them.



Case in point.

Oh, I've used several different Chinese lathes and a guy doesn't have to buy a Cruze to know the M3 is a far superior machine. Just driving both tells me everything I need to know.
Same goes for machine tools. A few laps with one is all I need to determine the superior machine.

I certain the Grizzly in question would be adequate but I'm just as certain a Cazeneuve would be much more than merely adequate.

 

[Dog]

I had a G4003 lathe and (for the money) it had a lot going for it. We should probably accept that at that price point perfection is going to be hard to come by. That being said there were serious (to me anyway) issues that need to be addressed. I too do gunsmith work from time to time and the most maddening thing was thread cutting. Vibrations would be transferred from the motor (which is mounted to the bed) into the work piece. I could get a pretty nice surface finish while cutting stock, but where it really had a problem was threading. The surface of threads looked faceted! (really bad) What eventually solved the problem was a combination of things. I had the motor rebuilt and balanced which helped some then isolated the motor on anti vibration pads. That finally got the threading to acceptable. If you do a search on this lathe threading is a common problem that guys struggle with. There were other things that needed to be sorted out but, unlike the threading issue, would generally come under the heading of sorting out a new lathe. In the end I sold the Griz. It just left a bad taste in my mouth after all I went through with it and I got a good deal on another lathe that I have been happy with. So, as with anything it depends on what your expectations are. You can’t expect perfection for the price Griz gets for these lathes. Expect the G4003 to be a “kit” with work needed in some areas and you will probably be alright. By the way, it’s not just Griz that has these types of issues with their Chinese lathes. A recent search on line about Jet lathes was a real eye opener for me.

 

[Ray C]

I had a G4003 lathe and (for the money) it had a lot going for it. We should probably accept that at that price point perfection is going to be hard to come by. That being said there were serious (to me anyway) issues that need to be addressed. I too do gunsmith work from time to time and the most maddening thing was thread cutting. Vibrations would be transferred from the motor (which is mounted to the bed) into the work piece. I could get a pretty nice surface finish while cutting stock, but where it really had a problem was threading. The surface of threads looked faceted! (really bad) What eventually solved the problem was a combination of things. I had the motor rebuilt and balanced which helped some then isolated the motor on anti vibration pads. That finally got the threading to acceptable. If you do a search on this lathe threading is a common problem that guys struggle with. There were other things that needed to be sorted out but, unlike the threading issue, would generally come under the heading of sorting out a new lathe. In the end I sold the Griz. It just left a bad taste in my mouth after all I went through with it and I got a good deal on another lathe that I have been happy with. So, as with anything it depends on what your expectations are. You can’t expect perfection for the price Griz gets for these lathes. Expect the G4003 to be a “kit” with work needed in some areas and you will probably be alright. By the way, it’s not just Griz that has these types of issues with their Chinese lathes. A recent search on line about Jet lathes was a real eye opener for me.

Good point here... Different types of lathes (in many cases) are better at certain things than others. If you want to avoid/mitigate those problems, you really need to be looking at pro-line equipment. The shop my father worked at had about 10 lathes (which were run two, sometimes three shifts per day, 6 days a week) consisting of a few each Leblond monsters and Leblond 16" units. They also had a couple Monarchs. Each machine had it's purpose as well as strong and weak points when they were used cross-functionally. Sometimes, the 20" lathes were used to make the small dies usually made on the 16" machines. They were dies to stamp lids and sides for soup cans. (Each die had a lifetime of about 1 million stamps which meant making new ones every couple weeks). Anyhow, the really big lathes didn't have the right characteristics to make the smaller dies and they struggled to meet the specs.

Incidentally, the monsters weren't used as much but the 16"ers never got a chance to cool off. They were replaced about every 10 years even though they were very well maintained. Anything that sees that much use wears out.

Anyhow, there's not only the issue of quality, there's the issue of using the right machine for the job. Most hobbyist lathes have a 7" wide bed -which is nothing. 9 to 10 inch is where you start feeling and seeing the stability of the machine. The weight and cost differences are considerable...

Ray

EDIT: I misspoke above... The dies were in continuous production day in and out. There were hundreds of dies (varying sizes etc) and they all needed to be replaced every couple weeks. BTW: Making the dies was doled-out to the lower guys on the totem pole. The more advanced guys made all the replacement parts for the machines consisting of spiraled gears, cams... you name it, all high precision stuff.

 

[Sandia]

The subject of "which is the best machine to purchase", is virtually impossible to address because of the variables involved. Used American versus all the others, in my opinion is not a simple question. There are issues that apply to some that will not to others. My personal experience, which by the way is limited as I consider myself as a learning hobbyist. None the less when I originally purchased my first lathe about 10 years ago, I searched for a used American machine, but being from south Texas I quickly discovered that I probably was not going to find anything soon, so I looked at the foreign market and choose a 13X40 Jet lathe which served okay as I was learning and it was trouble free, it was also the only brand I could go look at in person at a local supply store. I sold the Jet this year and bought a new Acer 14x40 which I dearly love, fit and finish and performance is fantastic. I had to drive 250 miles to Houston to be able to see the machine run and operate it but that was a must before I purchased again. Impressed enough to buy the Acer 3EVS mill which is a real pleasure to operate, (I can hear the power feed motor over the mill). Not touting the Acer brand just my personal experience.

As Ray C has said the PM brand gets a lot of good reviews, so there are some options just not many.
Please excuse the long post.

Bob

 

[Turnaround]

I misspoke when I only said "hobbiest" - I should have said newbie/beginner hobbiest. I am a hobbiest, but I am a pretty experienced one. A beginner is going into a learning curve to just learn to operate his new machine, much less the necessary tool/skill to determine and then repair/adjust an older machine. And I certainly am not saying this as an across the board statement, there are obviously different situations. I am encouraging the newbie/hobbiest to go into his purchase after considering it from many different ways - his skill levels, tools he has or has access to, space to install, etc etc.

My skill (if any skill can be recognized) is wet grinding racing, small engine, and automotive crankshafts. I have two grinders, both pretty worn. I did make up a list of repair parts and asked for quotes.

The present owners, of each machine tool marque, should be provided with "get away horses" so they can flee the scene of their thefts. They price repair parts like the aircraft or marine parts industry, which are on the order of ten times reality. My new (four years ago) Harbor Freight 14 x 40 lathe has performed way past my skill level. I have used little Southbends and other cast iron castings. I have to say that by the time I got to use the American made stuff, their ways were gone, and they were not repairable by me (somebody that can scrape ways, maybe yes - but not me).

I had the occasion to order odd ball stuff for a Harbor Freight, round column drill/mill, and was amazed at the fill rate on my order plus how reasonable the charges were. So it is the old story of my beloved American factories pricing me out of the market. Soooo sad.

 

[AzizaVFR]

Hello all,

I'm considering the purchase of a Grizzly G0709 Gunsmith Lathe . It's a 14 x 40 and is advertised online and in the published catalog .

Was wondering if any of you have any negative / positive input on this machime ?

They also list a similar 13 x 40 Floor lathe for more ( $ 4795 Vs 4495 ) which has a few less goodies and is smaller . I don't really know why .

To the moderator : If this is in the wrong place , I'm sorry . Please move it to wherever it belongs .

Thanks a million guys !



Doug

Greeting Doug,

I have owned my G0709 for about a year now. In that time I have experienced the following items:

1. If you do buy it, be really nice to the delivery guy. He might even help you roll it into the space it will be housed. Upon delivery, the lathe is mounted to the stand, inside a giant box, to a pallet, connected to the shipping pallet. A couple of furniture dollies from Harbor Freight are your friends once you get it on the ground.
2. Order the matching DRO. It was well worth the price. The other option is to order the similar one from DRO-Pros, and get the 0.0001" scale for the cross-slide.
3. Follow the break-in procedure, drain all the fluids and check for any and all leaks. I had to seal around sight glasses in the headstock and the quick change gear box.
4. I added four pieces of 1/4" hard rubber matting to the motor mounts to squelch the motor vibration from the headstock. From the factory, it is solidly mounted to the frame.
5. The piston style tool post was okay for its intended purposes. I bought a wedge style to get a better grip on each tool holder.
6. I have only had to adjust the gibs once in a year of service.

 

[trukker]

Doug,
As an owner of the G0709 I can say that I am happy with my purchase. I am new to machining and this is my first lathe. I have had it since April 2013. My only complaint has been the paint. It had overspray and less that great prep. The one time I called customer service they did good job and backordered a leaking gasket. It has done what I needed it to do so far. It was in stock so it was delivered in about a week. Other similar models were 3-6 month out. I do not expect I will outgrow it anytime soon.

 

[jahjah]

I bought a G0709 about 2-1/2 years ago after some consideration and visiting some owners of other brands as well. A classic rebuild was not currently in my game plan although I totally understand the reasons for doing that. I spent about an hour working on the machine and discovered a problem with threading that I will not go into here. I also installed a DRO. Right after that I had a health diagnosis and left the machine alone until about a month ago. Grizzly support has been exemplary and we discovered that my machine was in a small batch that were delivered with an incorrect gear in the easy change gearbox.(for metric country) It was simple to remove the old one and I am waiting for the correct one, which has shipped (free).
Now, with some time on my hands, I decided to investigate the setup and change the fluids as the manual specifies after running all the gears for a while. I also had determined a few things I didn't like.
The fluid change was uneventful but when I took the spindle gearbox cover off, while the oil looked new and the gears looked nice, there was a lot of dirt in the bottom. I blew it out with a solvent sprayer. The gasket on the cover was misaligned and partially blocked the hole for lubrication to run to the rear bearing, an SKF taper per the manual.
The electrical buttons are mounted on the thin aluminum face plate and move dramatically when pressed. I put an aluminum angle behind the face and pop riveted it on. It is now very secure.
When I took the front cover off the easy change gearbox, even though I had changed the oil, there was a lot of dirt in the bottom. The gearbox itself looked nice. Again, the solvent spray. I also decide I didn't like the cheesy cover plates on the three gear change knobs because: 1) The knobs are put on with a center cap screw that is not tightened all the way because it will bind the knob.(Eventually I will shim so they can be locked down) 2) The ball detent adjustment hole is blocked. The knobs themselves are substantial heavy items and I painted the original pattern on them and they look much better.
I had noticed that while I was manually turning something with a dial indicator on the part that I could move the chuck about a thousandth just by pulling on it. I decided to follow the manuals directions to adjust the spindle run-out. I didn't want to buy a spanner wrench so I made one. Then, I was looking for a plumbing part in my junk for another project and saw that a $7 garbage disposer wrench is the same thing, so I had two spanners which is much better than the manual's recommendation to have one. The manual said to place a dial indicator longitudinally and after getting some free-play to tighten until the indicator stops. That made no sense to me since you would have to go past to determine that so I put the indicator on the side.(after all it's a taper bearing) I adjusted the previous run-out of .001 to .0001. I ran it 20 minutes at high speed and it wasn't any warmer than the pre-adjust warm-up (barely warm to the touch). Perhaps I could have removed the last .0001 but I left it at that for now. The bore that the bearings is in is very tight and it took some spanner torque to move the spindle back into adjustment. I think this is good. It runs very smoothly by hand and by motor. It was more difficult to move by hand before at times and it is quieter now. I find that odd but there you have it.
I decided to mount the 4-jaw chuck. The quick release pins would not thread in far enough on 5 out of the 6. Eventually, I determined that the threads were simply not cut as long as the pin threads. There was dirt on the Acme threads and the jaws did not move easily. I did not remove the gears. I sprayed solvent and ran them with an impact gun at speed until they were clean. I then ran the freshly lubricated jaws in and out with the gun for a while and then they moved very smoothly. Tomorrow, I go to buy the tap since it is a size I don't have. (The pins went in fine on the plate chuck)
In summary, the Grizzly machines are not cleaned during or after assembly. I think they get the parts with whatever junk is on them to prevent rust and just install them. This is however, easily remedied with an $8 solvent sprayer. I guess some people are using water based solvents or mineral spirits but I have a cache of actual cleaning solvent. Also, they do not debur hardly anything that isn't visible. I'm sure I will have more things to clean and adjust but in general I am happy with the machine for the $4k it cost me and very satisfied with the support on a machine that is technically well out of warranty.