Clausing 8530 Restoration

[Janderso]

You gotta watch these petrochemical companies, they pull the ol' switcheroo on you all the time!

As one of those additional duty things, I review and approve chemicals for health for the O&M side of an organization that employs nearly 25,000 people locally. I read many SDS per day with my coffee, and since I'm me, I tend to remember certain line items and the products they go with. That's background, the point is not 6 months ago Kleen Strip concrete etch was listed as equivalent to 50/50 phosphoric and hydrochloric acids.

This SDS (below) came out several weeks ago, now it's all phosphoric. That is actually fantastic for those of us using it on metal, the concrete prep users are (maybe) taking the hit for the change. Then again, crystalline citric acid is just as good at concrete, it's cheap, safer and a bit slower. Maybe Kleen Strip wanted to enhance the metal prep aspect. I'm cool with that, and you can't beat the price. I still think evaporust is the cleanest and the chromic acid in Ospho makes it top shelf for toughening the oxide layer. From a health risk perspective, using chromic acid is an issue. It's pretty spooky stuff in the long term.

So what is evaporust made with? I love the stuff.

 

[Aukai]

Interesting, I'm looking for something that I can use for electrochemical cleaning welds on stainless steel, would this work?

 

[ElginAgain]

I've been really impressed at how you went about your upscaled e-derusting setup, and now it is really paying off for you. Fantastic work!

Thanks! I'm pretty happy with the new setup, I do wish though that I hadn't used wood to line the lid, it's started growing mold. BTW I've been trying the phosphoric pre-treatment for my black oxide stuff, it's still coming out a bit blotchy. I've read over on finishing.com that this whole diy black oxide thing doesn't usually work out well and it's much better to go with commercial salts, such as the ones sold by Brownells. I have been thinking about trying zinc plating with a black chromate conversion coating, but my previous attempts with zinc weren't super consistent either. If I get real bored one day I might even bust out that nickel plating kit I never used and see if I can make all my handles and knobs shine.

 

[pontiac428]

Depends on what you're after. If it's even color, then bluing salts will do it nicely!

So what is evaporust made with? I love the stuff.

It's a concentrate of tannic acid, a polyprotic carbon based acid. Sure does work well, a lot more gentle than the others.

Interesting, I'm looking for something that I can use for electrochemical cleaning welds on stainless steel, would this work?

The concrete prep is what I would try first. I put a welded part in Ospho yesterday for a light rust removal and pre-paint pickle, it took less than an hour to soak both sides clean. The metal was dull grey, but the welds were shiny. IIRC, HCl is a go-to surface wash for welds. If you are welding for NASA, they might not let you use acid to clean welds, but for the rest of the world, I think it is reasonable.

 

[Janderso]

Depends on what you're after. If it's even color, then bluing salts will do it nicely!


It's a concentrate of tannic acid, a polyprotic carbon based acid. Sure does work well, a lot more gentle than the others.


The concrete prep is what I would try first. I put a welded part in Ospho yesterday for a light rust removal and pre-paint pickle, it took less than an hour to soak both sides clean. The metal was dull grey, but the welds were shiny. IIRC, HCl is a go-to surface wash for welds. If you are welding for NASA, they might not let you use acid to clean welds, but for the rest of the world, I think it is reasonable.

Ok, it is an acid.
Best to rinse well then.
I love that stuff!!

 

[pontiac428]

Ok, it is an acid.
Best to rinse well then.
I love that stuff!!

It is, but it is an organic acid, not a strong binary acid. Tannic works by having many positively charged active sites all over its large structure formed by bay regions in a carbon lattice that can take an electron from iron oxide. It's not a strong chemical, it's a high capacity chemical.

 

[ElginAgain]

I hear that the contents of Evaporust is a tightly guarded trade secret, but I did find a good explanation of how it works.


Also found a youtube video of a guy making his own clone.

I looked into buying that Tetrasodium EDTA he's using as a chelating agent and did the math on what it would cost per gallon vs Evaporust and it was only about 50% savings, which doesn't seem like enough savings to justify the risk that it's not going to work. If I found a cheaper source I might give it a go for items too large or awkward to fit my 5 gallon bucket of Evaporust or 55 gallon e-derusting tank, such as the bed on my upcoming Logan lathe project.

I suspect though that the efficacy of that guy's diy solution will be depleted much more quickly than the original formula due to it's lack of "An organic chemical that easily loses sulfur to form ferric sulfate (which) was added (to evaporust) to remove iron from the Iron-Chelator complex." It's my understanding that these chelators can only do so much chelating before they're all chelated out, but that sulfer stuff they added, replenishes their ability to chelate. I'm no chemist, so I could be way off.

 

[Janderso]

It is, but it is an organic acid, not a strong binary acid. Tannic works by having many positively charged active sites all over its large structure formed by bay regions in a carbon lattice that can take an electron from iron oxide. It's not a strong chemical, it's a high capacity chemical.

John,
Are you some sort of brainiac?

 

[pontiac428]

John,
Are you some sort of brainiac?

Industrial Hygienist is another word for nerdy unicorn. Nah, I just have a couple of semesters studying the sorption exchange mechanisms in humic, fulvic, and tannic acids (environmental transport and fate). Those are the main components that retain pollution in peat wetlands. I took three additional classes on the ion exchange mechanisms in charged clays (some of the hardest I ever took- soil science, soil physics, hydrogeochemistry). Every one has industrial applications, now I can use the wetland chemical kinetics knowledge to model how a respirator cartridge sorbs a contaminant, and I can explain to the environmental scientists why they didn't find the chemical they spilled in the water (because it's in the soil and soil organic matter, for example). Utility engineers asked me to write the maintenance schedule for deodorizers at sewer lift stations because they were scared of the chemistry calcs (good thing, too). Nope, I'm just the handy guy they call who remembers his education and training and uses it to navigate complicated situations. I'm terrible at routine work, so I gravitate to the more complicated stuff. Then I turn around and remind people what they already know so they don't have to call me again, make them feel good about what they've done, then write a report to the command. It's one way to carve out a niche.

 

[ElginAgain]

More progress was made on the table feed and gear housing assembly.

I started at the left side where the power feed goes, this end was already disassembled a bit from braking the machine down when I brought it home 7 month ago. Turns out the left side of the table was the appropriate choice to break down because the bearing is not retained in the dial housing which is those caps that go on the end of the table. The R/H side of the table has two bearings that are retained by a metal plate, so it's a little more difficult to take apart.


Turns out there's a whole bunch of spacers that go between the dial and the bearing, not sure what's up with that, I suspect it has to do with alignment of the power feed drive gear.


Next I moved on to the R/H side of the table lead screw, which on the 8530 has the rapid feed gear housing assbly.



Removing the cover on the gear housing, revealed that the grease inside had actually hardened to the point it could be chipped off with a scrapper. I would guess this is the original grease put on there 54 years ago. Nothing a little boiling hot Simple Green Extreme (SGE) bath in the ultrasonic tank won't tank care of. I've become very keen to checking if parts are ferrous, ever since the tragedy with the aluminum wiper retainers disappearing into the caustic hot tank forever. If the magnet don't stick or I see any sort of copper/bronze/brass bushings on there, then they get the SGE spa treatment.



Here the gear housing is all opened up and removed from the dial housing. You can see that plate retaining the bearings in the dial housing, it's the same setup used on the cross feed screw.


Here's a little lesson I learned the hard way. I tried pulling the bearings, plate and gear off the screw all at the same time, using my bearing separator. I was tightening it by hand and could feel the bearings start to move, but then get fetched up and the sudden it's much harder to turn.


Turns out and it's obvious now that this would be the case, but there's a woodruff key under that gear, so it needs to be pulled first, then the key removed, then the bearings. You can see where the inner race of the bearing smashed up the key pretty bad. I was going to replace the bearings anyways, so no big deal there, but a new key had to be sourced from McMaster Carr P/N: 98481A075.


Then between the bearings there's a spacer, which also got beat up pretty bad in my bumbling about with the bearing separator. I determined the closest match was McMaster Carr P/N: 3088A232.



Finally the bearings were off the shaft...


I pulled the handle off the end of the gearbox shaft, only to discover that the woodruff key had been wobbling about in there widening out the keyway. Not sure why this happened and I was pretty worried that I'd have to make some repairs here.


There was a bit of damage on the keyway inside the handle as well.


I ended up just filing down the raised edges around the shaft keyway, installing one of those new keys I bought, and hammering the handle back on there. No signs of it wobbling about yet, but I'll have to keep an eye on it.

The lock wheel was sealed up on the dial, maybe if I'd tried removing it before disassembly it would have been easier, but I came up with this clever method of clamping it in the vice and using cannon plug pliers to break it loose without causing any damage.


I wish I could have saved this little sticker on the gearbox cover, but u had to be removed to properly clean the cover. I figured I might be able to recreate it if I took pictures with a scale.


Here's all the parts cleaned up and ready for reassembly. Disregard the large bolts and rectangular plate. Those are for the lathe.


First the two gear stack went in.


Then the shaft with associated gears. I chose to lube it with Lucas Red "N" Tacky #2 because it's what I had and it seemd appropriate.


Guess I thought this photo may be helpful to show the set screw retaining the shaft which the two gears ride on.


Here it is all finished up.