CL Pricing Madness,

[NC Rick]

I am fixated on the 143 (sorry, it's an emotional thing ). I don't have a problem with an open discussion of pricing. We recently had a Powermatic on our local Craig's list that in the photos, looked perfect with all the factory paint and stickers. The owner was asking $1500. If I didn't have my Taiwanese stand-in which is doing a great job for my needs, I would have been willing to pay that for a near perfect machine. I spent more on my new machine which came as a 2hp VFD controlled saw.
on going to look at the machine, I would check it out I would honestly asses the condition and tell the owner what I thought. In my case, if it was all I hoped for, I would ask if he would be willing to take $1000. If he said he was firm and would not, I would hem an haw before paying up for a machine. If it had problems, I would figure what it was worth to me and make the offer. If not accepted I would respect his option of asking any figure he wanted and and expect him to have the same respect for my willingness to pay what I think it's worth. I have walked away from a lot of things in that manner and have also gotten great deals, fair deals and sometimes bad deals (which were on me, I believe in buyer beware).

most people are honest and kind. A few are not and in those cases, I'd rather not be involved in an exchange regardless. Most things I have bought and sold, I have totally enjoyed the people I met and dealt with. With used tools, I want to know the story, to me they have a life of their own which is important to me. I get that to others, they may be nothing more than a tool to do a job.

 

[C-Bag]

It is a complicated story indeed. I get attached to certain machines and tools too. Sometimes i used one someplace and just got stuck on it. When MrWhoopee started coming up with all these DoAll vert saws it really got me thinking about what I’d have to get rid of to make it fit. And to add insult to injury many of them were like $800! i just like those saws because it was the first industrial vert I ever used and it was a beast. But ultimately it takes a LOT to overcome the inertia because I’m pretty happy with what I’ve cobbled together for myself. Same with the lathes and Mills I see. I have been at it long enough to know my work envelope and know it’s just that demon desire messing with me to want big industrial machines. I would never use them to their potential and I just don’t have the room.

I would love to know the story of these old tools I’ve picked up but I can’t think of a single instance where that was possible. They have all been secondhand from someone who didn’t know or in an estate sale where the guy was dead and the sellers had no clue or interest. The universal BS line I hear over and over is it was seldom used. And upon closer looks so far that has not been close to true.

The only time I’ve ever talked someone down was with my RF30. It was a LOT rougher than the pics and descriptions when seen in person. And his “improvements” were obviously more a liability than real improvement. But it was already so cheap I figured it would get me down the road and I could do like with my old cars, fix it while it got me where I needed to go. I talked him down another $50. CL is my tv time. I don’t watch tv, so I cruise CL from Los Angeles to San Francisco. Some crazy stuff pops up. Especially here in between the two.

 

[Papa Charlie]

@Papa Charlie, I recognize that ad from at least a year ago, possibly longer. Same photos, too. The background in the scene is memorable.

Do the prices look the same or have they gone up. Not surprising that it has been around for a while. I peruse CL daily, if for no other reason to see what people are selling and for what. Over the last 9 months, I have been seeing the same adds for the same price over and over again. I don't understand the mentality. Do you want to sell this or are you just delusional that it is worth this huge price that they probably came up with from similar delusional sellers on CL?

 

[Janderso]

Yeah. the vintage Jet does not belong. Other items are nice though.

 

[pontiac428]

Do the prices look the same or have they gone up. Not surprising that it has been around for a while. I peruse CL daily, if for no other reason to see what people are selling and for what. Over the last 9 months, I have been seeing the same adds for the same price over and over again. I don't understand the mentality. Do you want to sell this or are you just delusional that it is worth this huge price that they probably came up with from similar delusional sellers on CL?

I was trying to recall the prices to see if they've changed, but in all honesty I don't remember because I wasn't considering it. But I am certain the ad has been run before, with quite a time gap.

 

[Aaron_W]

@Papa Charlie, I recognize that ad from at least a year ago, possibly longer. Same photos, too. The background in the scene is memorable.

I, for one, hate to haggle. I don't want to play guess-your-price. I really appreciate the Germans in this regard- the price asked is the price paid. Simple, with no psychology or weirdness. When I sell stuff, I am up front about what I want. I wish they were all
that way, especially if I am looking at a couple hours' drive to look at something.

Even more than spending the money, the "dance" is what I really hate about car shopping. I'm glad to see no haggle car buying becoming a thing.

I think a lot of sellers factor in hagglers. Some people will try and talk the price down on free stuff, so I think a lot of sellers factor in a negotiating price. Others are more of the don't waste my time, my price is my price and I respect that, yeah sometimes their price is nuts but maybe that is what it is worth to them. The other side of that is I don't waste my time if the sellers asking price isn't close to what I think I should pay. Just as there are wildly over priced items, I've also found a fair number of undervalued items, things the seller just want to move. I don't think we see these items as frequently because they don't tend to stick around.

Do the prices look the same or have they gone up. Not surprising that it has been around for a while. I peruse CL daily, if for no other reason to see what people are selling and for what. Over the last 9 months, I have been seeing the same adds for the same price over and over again. I don't understand the mentality. Do you want to sell this or are you just delusional that it is worth this huge price that they probably came up with from similar delusional sellers on CL?

I do the same, when I start to develop an interest in something I'll start watching ebay and CL, just to get an idea what people are asking. I think CL is a little better gauge of prices for large items since it is a smaller pool of buyers and moving it is usually not part of the deal. ebay has a much larger pool and also factors in ebays cut, shipping and occasionally other shenanigans (shill bidders etc).

Now I'll fully admit to one of the hazards of doing this, I have ended up buying things I really had not really intended too simply because I found a good deal on something I eventually wanted, even though now wasn't necessarily the best timing. In fact most of my machines were acquired through the I'm thinking about getting, and wow, here is a great opportunity and I have the money so... Not all were from browsing CL, several came to me after asking about xyz, and then somebody I was talking with happened to have one they wanted to sell.

 

[Winegrower]

I generally ignore "price is firm" comments. In fact, I generally ignore a seller's requested price. It's worth what you can get somebody to pay, and if I show up and make an offer, you can accept or reject, but perhaps you don't really like to sell and bargain yourself, and having it gone and freeing up the rest of your life is worth something. It took three calls and two visits to land the Takisawa at much lower than the "firm" price.

What I'm not going to do is talk for an hour about random stuff, ask a bunch of dumb questions, then make a lowball offer. No need to waste your time like that.

 

[NC Rick]

It is a complicated story indeed. I get attached to certain machines and tools too. Sometimes i used one someplace and just got stuck on it. When MrWhoopee started coming up with all these DoAll vert saws it really got me thinking about what I’d have to get rid of to make it fit. And to add insult to injury many of them were like $800! i just like those saws because it was the first industrial vert I ever used and it was a beast. But ultimately it takes a LOT to overcome the inertia because I’m pretty happy with what I’ve cobbled together for myself. Same with the lathes and Mills I see. I have been at it long enough to know my work envelope and know it’s just that demon desire messing with me to want big industrial machines. I would never use them to their potential and I just don’t have the room.

I would love to know the story of these old tools I’ve picked up but I can’t think of a single instance where that was possible. They have all been secondhand from someone who didn’t know or in an estate sale where the guy was dead and the sellers had no clue or interest. The universal BS line I hear over and over is it was seldom used. And upon closer looks so far that has not been close to true.

The only time I’ve ever talked someone down was with my RF30. It was a LOT rougher than the pics and descriptions when seen in person. And his “improvements” were obviously more a liability than real improvement. But it was already so cheap I figured it would get me down the road and I could do like with my old cars, fix it while it got me where I needed to go. I talked him down another $50. CL is my tv time. I don’t watch tv, so I cruise CL from Los Angeles to San Francisco. Some crazy stuff pops up. Especially here in between the two.

The big Doall saws I have been around in factories but have personally seldom used have such a presents i even think of their smell. I too wanted one so badly but my 7" ceiling and limited space (and perhaps logical thinking) lead me away from having another multi thousand pound machine, sadly. My good friend bought a Powermatic 143 brand new in the mid-seventies and uses it in his business still today. That was my logical lust machine and it's too bad no one has nocked off that because it isn't too heavy, has a sturdy but not massive cast frame and the quick change gearbox is the perfect thing for a multi-purpose machine. Used they cost more than some Doall saws! As it happens, the made in Taiwan saw I have is only 440 lbs and really gets the job done. Fabricated steel, not cast but seemingly up to the tasks I have for it.

looking at my 1930s WT drill press, I see nice castings like you just won't see these days yet on the other hand, it was a pricepoint machine and the machining work looks worse than most made in China stuff today. I remember when Japanese stuff was just terrible and now I kinda seek it out as top quality. Our modern machine tools have made great quality machining almost ubiquitous. I still wana Doall! Logic sucks sometimes.

 

[Masterjuggler]

I, for one, hate to haggle.

I think it's interesting how different ppl think from different cultures. Last time I was in a shuk (like a large open air marketplace) in Israel, haggling was how the vendors kept themselves entertained. They get rich off idiot tourists who pay $7 for a can of soda, and have fun with the locals or people who are used to it. Personally I have a lot of fun with it. I've gotten some great deals from craigslist, FB marketplace, and even ebay by bartering a bit. Of course some people just aren't into it and I don't press them, but too often they're the ones who keep a craigslist ad alive for over a year not understanding why they haven't sold yet.

 

[kb58]

Indeed