Cheaply Made Chinese Garbage

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Two decades ago, when I worked for a medical device company, our Quality Assurance Manager, a professional in the field, told us that, if customers were not complaining about the product, we were building too much quality into it. As an engineering manager, if I saw a product deficiency, I made every effort to correct the deficiency. I realize that there is a cost for additional quality and the line has to be drawn at some point but, IMO, it is a matter of ethics.

Later, when I was involved with a startup biotech company, we need to have some prototype molding done of a technically challenging plastic part. We contacted a nationally known American company and had the choice of going with a mold and parts made in USA but with an aluminum mold of rather short life span or with a steel Chinese mold and Chinese made parts. We opted for the latter. As stated the part was technically challenging and the process of getting suitable molded parts was far more involved than either we or the vendor imagined.


Everything went along not great but acceptable for a few years. We place product specifications on the parts and insisted on them being individually inspected before leaving the factory. As might be expected, this brought price increases, ultimately reaching tenfold. Unexpectedly, we got a shipment that was total crap, not even close to meeting our specs. After a bit of investigation, we found out the the press that they were molding on had died so they sent the work to a different factory where they had no idea as to what was being done to ensure meeting our quality standards.

To be fair, a few years later the company that acquired us decided to bring the production back stateside. We haggled around, soliciting bids for the mold design and manufacture and for production parts. We finally picked a regional company (against my better judgement). There was a sizable cost for the mold and we also had to pay for a third party mold flow analysis. First production parts were to have come off in about six months. This process began four years ago and they still have not produced a production part.

Offshore manufacturers make products cheaply because they employ cheap labor. Many times the production workers are not aware they are making poor products. I don't believe that anyone, given the choice between making a bad product or making a good part and all else being equal is going to make the bad product. That doesn't mean that there isn't some plant manager trying to squeeze a little more production out of their plant or a QA inspector using the squeal test for appropriate product quality. The solution for that though is vigilance on the part of the US importer or manufacturing counterpart.

A second point is that although we see a rash of complaints about Chinese lack of quality, it also exists in US made products. There are certainly quality Made in USA products but I have run into more than my share of problems with them as well.

Regarding product imported by US vendors, my Grizzly lathe came missing a set screw for adjusting backlash on the cross feed, drive belts that wouldn't work as supplied, and a Woodruff key that had been inserted upside down and the gear spacer pounded on, cracking the spacer. My Tormach PCNC770 has a list of problems a half page long. Grizzly claims to inspect every machine on arrival in it US warehouse yet the crate had apparently never been opened. The same was true for the 770.

Finally, having ISO 9000/9001/9002 certification in no way implies that you are supplying quality products, only that you are supplying products of consistent quality. The whole philosophy of ISO 9000 is that you design a product and make a first article to test for compliance to existing standards, if any, and because you have a quality system in place, you can make production product that will meet the same standards, if they were tested.
 
I can relate to what Bruce, Bambam, and R J has said. The oilfield is full of "Made in China" stuff, too. Every thing from drilling rigs, pump trucks, frac trucks, to all sorts of downhole equipment, which I'm involved with. It's all about specifications & procedures to the Chinese. They only do what you tell them to do. And if your specification says to make it from "butter" steel, that's what you get. I take care of findings that Chinese QC reports find and on the average, it's about equivalent to what I'm used to seeing over here in the states. They report more findings dealing with light rust on some things to rough finish left from drilling a holes. Stuff that I hardly ever see reported locally.
 
Speaking of broken vises, I did this tonight at work. It's a 3" mill vise (imported) from LMS, it was part of one of their accessory packages that I bought when I bought my mini mill. I was snugging the handle down when I heard/felt a soft 'thunk.' Cracked it on both sides. I've been using it for about 3 months, but not daily, and definitely not improperly. I had it positioned in the middle of the table, directly under the spindle pretty much, and I had it secured with 4 clamp set-ups.

Any recommendations on brands/models to look at, as well as ones avoid? I'm thinking I'd like to get something a little bigger and deeper, maybe a 4 or 5", or would that be too big for a mini mill bed? I'm going to have to keep the pricing below $300 if possible.
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I can relate to what Bruce, Bambam, and R J has said. The oilfield is full of "Made in China" stuff, too. Every thing from drilling rigs, pump trucks, frac trucks, to all sorts of downhole equipment, which I'm involved with. It's all about specifications & procedures to the Chinese. They only do what you tell them to do. And if your specification says to make it from "butter" steel, that's what you get. I take care of findings that Chinese QC reports find and on the average, it's about equivalent to what I'm used to seeing over here in the states. They report more findings dealing with light rust on some things to rough finish left from drilling a holes. Stuff that I hardly ever see reported locally.

Hi, I cant agree more to your comments on the two previous contributions, Chinese mad stuff can be excellent, but mostly isn't, it's all about specification. and QC and checking constant checking, Of interest I know that Harley Davidson have their alloy wheels made here in Australia, because we can make the quality. they have tried a few times to get them made elsewhere, but soon come back to us, they eventually bought the factory so they ensure supply.
 
If you live close to areas where old stock is in plentiful supply then renovating those old "quality" machines may be a worthwhile pursuit but for many of us there is no other source and anyway they are often priced well above market value.
Without "cheap" Chinese product many of us would be locked out of the hobby.
:D

Agree, and while I buy mainly old tools and machines and enjoy the process of restoring them, other don't. A few of the items I have picked up used had been brought by the previous owner with the intention of doing them up and using them - but in the end they go out and by a new Chinese one as they want to "use" a lathe not "build" one.
 
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Inspect, and use with care !!
1) as with anything from China, you are the quality control.
2) from a country that can launch spacecraft, military vessels, subs etc. I find it suspicious that products intended for use outside China are of such poor quality that nuts and bolts don't even fit each other.
Yes...I believe there is a "policy" within the Chinese government regarding what gets sent to other countries.
One can only hope that they will eventually appreciate the advantages of good products in a world market economy and make the necessary changes. At the end of WW2 we were buying "Jap crap", now they produce the finest machinery, autos and electronics in the world.
 
Speaking of broken vises, I did this tonight at work. It's a 3" mill vise (imported) from LMS, it was part of one of their accessory packages that I bought when I bought my mini mill. I was snugging the handle down when I heard/felt a soft 'thunk.' Cracked it on both sides. I've been using it for about 3 months, but not daily, and definitely not improperly. I had it positioned in the middle of the table, directly under the spindle pretty much, and I had it secured with 4 clamp set-ups.

Any recommendations on brands/models to look at, as well as ones avoid? I'm thinking I'd like to get something a little bigger and deeper, maybe a 4 or 5", or would that be too big for a mini mill bed? I'm going to have to keep the pricing below $300 if possible.
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LMC went thru a bunch of the 3" vises a couple years back for similar reasons. They changed to a "heavy duty" vise to take the place of the previously offered vise. You may check with them and see what they can do for you. Other than that, save up your money and buy a Kurt vise or one of the other ones you can get now made of higher quality materials.

EDIT: If you turn over the vise, I bet the fracture line follows thru the bolt holes that hold the jaw in place.
 
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LMC went thru a bunch of the 3" vises a couple years back for similar reasons. They changed to a "heavy duty" vise to take the place of the previously offered vise. You may check with them and see what they can do for you. Other than that, save up your money and buy a Kurt vise or one of the other ones you can get now made of higher quality materials.

EDIT: If you turn over the vise, I bet the fracture line follows thru the bolt holes that hold the jaw in place.


I sent them an a mail explaining how it broke, along with this pic--hopefully will hear from them soon.
 
One concern that I have regarding Chinese goods in particular but those from other countries of origin is that during the inspection process, there is fallout. My concern is that, instead of being destroyed, it finds its way back to the consumer market, usually at a price too good to be true. Looking at the goods, there is no outward appearance of a defect but the goods will give poor performance or fail in use.

Using the vise from the OP as an example, it is possible that the quality of the iron that went into the castings failed inspection and the manufacturer had a boatload of bad products. To recoup some of the loss, the manufacture dumped the lot which was picked up by another entrepreneur and sold to the importer.

We could all probably come up with examples of products where this would be a likely scenario.
 
One concern that I have regarding Chinese goods in particular but those from other countries of origin is that during the inspection process, there is fallout. My concern is that, instead of being destroyed, it finds its way back to the consumer market, usually at a price too good to be true. Looking at the goods, there is no outward appearance of a defect but the goods will give poor performance or fail in use.

Using the vise from the OP as an example, it is possible that the quality of the iron that went into the castings failed inspection and the manufacturer had a boatload of bad products. To recoup some of the loss, the manufacture dumped the lot which was picked up by another entrepreneur and sold to the importer.

We could all probably come up with examples of products where this would be a likely scenario.

You are right, items are not destroyed but rather recycled and sold on at cheaper prices. We have some services and manufacturing done in China through my company but we have trustworthy locals who do the QC for us before shipping. You may be surprised but if quality issues are found, the manufacturers are usually happy to fix them as they won't get paid otherwise. We also use locals to help build the spec. as we in the Western world take certain quality levels or assumed quality checks, finish grades etc... for granted.

As is quickly becoming the case, you get what you pay for and in some situations, not even that.

Paul.
 
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