Buying a woodworking combination machine

[samthedog]

I have the potential of getting as much flame birch as I want for next to nothing on a regular basis. I do woodworking too but considering the volume of flame birch I want to process and sell on, I need to seriously upgrade my machines. I have sold on my Inca bandsaw, jointer / thicknesser and will be advertising my table saw today. I want to replace my machines with one of these (the first picture is the actual machine):






As you can see it's an industrial combination machine and weighs in at a hefty 480 kg. The only problem I am having is trying to explain the tax issue of buying this in Sweden and crossing into Norway. The seller wants me to pay goods and services tax on it (even though it is being exported and is not required by law in Sweden), which I will then have to pay a further 25% on the total when I cross into Norway. I will see how this plays out as if he insists on the Swedish tax portion, I suspect he is planning on keeping the "tax" and not declaring it which is why he is so unwilling to drop it.

If I can get it and pay the normal import tax of 25% on the Norwegian border, it will come close to 5K USD. Fingers crossed as this is an ideal machine as it is robust and should never be under capacity for my use.

Thoughts? Any combimachine users care to chime in?

Paul.

 

[Dave Smith]

Paul---what is the width of the planer capacity and what is the diameter of the ripping blade--I myself never liked the saw blade and planer mixed--How many blades are on the planer--how many horsepower is the motor?--seems awefully expensive for just a planer and rip saw but maybe your supply over there isn't as plentiful as here---Dave

 

[LJP]

I am a custom furniture maker by trade (34 years). I am not a combination machine user, but have considered it in the past. That looks like a well built, quality machine.
Everytime I have gotten close to buying one I start thinking about how I like to leave certain set-ups, just in case.
A combo machine will certainly save space, and perhaps give you the ability to have something like a shaper which in the long run does not get a lot of use, but sure takes up floor space every day.
I don't know what type of work you do, but it can difficult, and even impossible, to run all your parts through the thickness planer, only to realize in a week that you missed something.
You are probably well aware of these problems, and perhaps with a different approach can avoid some.
Best of luck getting the machine, again it looks like a beauty.
Larry

 

[samthedog]

I believe that the planer is a 3 blade Tersa system. The width is 310mm. It does not have a great capacity but it's also likely the pieces of Birch I get won't be so large.

A multi machine is not my first choice but given the space constraints of my garage, I need a sturdy machine in a small package. I believe the diameter of the ripping blade is about 400mm. The machine is running 2.2 KW motors if I remember correctly. The machine also has a spindle moulder and a mortise. It also comes wit a number of planer blades, moulder blades and also saw blades.

The reason for seriously considering this machine is that Stenbergs is a very well respected and well known company in Scandinavia and has a long history in wood working machines. The machine is an industrial unit and has seen very little use. Given it's heavy construction, I can put through much more wood than I could on a Robland or similar type machine before needing to replace parts.

I am not really looking to make jigs or fixtures and mainly am looking at a compact "sawmill". I have a robust bandsaw to rip down larger pieces too big for the table saw.

A Luna W59 or a Robland X310 will cost me the same or more and will be more lightly constructed.

Paul.

 

[Dave Smith]

Paul--it sounds like you have your eye on this machine and it is within your price range--I don't see the moulding spindle or mortiser on the pictures---my planer is a Belsaw 12 1/4" and I have a very large 5hp motor on it--it has 4 blades and has no trouble with oak or other hardwoods--it came with twin saw blades and molding cutters but I never used them---I do have an old Parks A87 planing mill that you would enjoy seeing and using--it was built in the 1920s and has 8 different functions--a large 16-18" rip saw--a 12" 4 blade joiner--a dado mandrell--a mortice and tenoner--a 15" disk sander--a 22 or 24" throat band saw--a drill press that could also drill square holes for carriage bolts--and a large 14-16" cross-cut saw that would swing up from under the table.--and a cut-off reciprocating blade( I didn't get it with the machine) it was all run by line shaft -or a big 3hp motor-----now that is really a combination saw----Hope you are able to get your machine ok and be happy with it----Dave

 

[LJP]

Paul, at 5k US it seems like a good deal. You will never wear that machine out in your garage, maybe need new bearings, but that is about it. A tersa head can cost $1500 as an upgrade on some machines.

 

[toag]

can pay via credit card or some other means so that the owner will have to declare it on his taxes? If so you can sweeten the deal by offering to pay cash and keep it "off book" (is that legal in sweden/norway?). I would think that would force his hand about the tax in sweden thing. I'm all for cash sales, and typically i get 20% or better off by doing so, and avoid tax. now if only there was a way to avoid auction "buyers premiums"

 

[samthedog]

Thanks for the interest guys. The first picture is of the actual machine I am looking at. The spindle for the spindle moulder is seen at the left of the planer cutter head in the first picture, and the shaft for the mortiser is run off the drive for the planer cutter head (you can see it on the fourth picture - however the table is missing).

Dave, to be honest most of what I want the machine for is ripping, planning and thicknessing. I don't forsee really using it to it's full extent but if my business idea eventuates, there seems to be no middle ground. If I want mass and stability, this machine is the only one I have found between 400 - 500kg that is an actual industrial machine. Dave, it sounds to me like you have gotten some use from your machines and obviously see the attraction of a combination machine.

LJP - you have pretty much summed up my thoughts. Cast iron, heavy and stable. Bearings and maybe the chain drive for the thicknesser feed will need changing some day, but the rest will outlive me. I have a thing for cast iron. 5K seems like a lot of cash (which it is), but I see this being a keeper.

Toag - rest assured I will do everything I can to get this bloke to reconsider. The way it stands now him asking for the taxes is a deal breaker. If he can reconsider then this will make purchase a real possibility.

I am going to play a little hard and tell him I am considering this machine:

http://www.blocket.se/orebro/Kombimaskin___Rikthyvel__Planhyvel__Sag_Borr_52478025.htm?ca=23_14&w=3

It is bigger, variable speed and the same price. Hopefully this will push him.

Paul.

 

[Dave Smith]

Paul--if that one is the same price I would definately would get it ---now that is a machine!!!! a very big improvement on quality and structure --that one would be my choice---Dave

 

[samthedog]

Paul--if that one is the same price I would definately would get it ---now that is a machine!!!! a very big improvement on quality and structure --that one would be my choice---Dave

I agree. The unfortunate thing is the space required to house the beast. I have a double bay car garage that I share for wood working and metal working. If I had the space I would buy it immediately. The ability to spool up or down with the turn of a pot is such a neat feature!!

Both machines are made by Stenbergs so you can see the pedigree and the similarity between them. Oh to have a bigger garage / shed

Paul.