Buying a lathe - new vs old

[walterk]

Yes but they are solid multicraft machines


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[walterk]

What's wrong with the 1220 xl for 1,890. Mill lathe combo


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[chuckorlando]

Nothing at all if thats what fits the budget and space. But if one can afford it, buy as big as you can in both a mill and a lathe. Combo machines do both but they dont do either as well as a dedicated set up

 

[Ray C]

This is what I have learned with this class of machine, its accurate enough for casual use, but not full 40-80 hour a week constant work - But.............if busy enough to full shift work a lathe I would think a CNC would be done anymore. Basically at what point are manual lathes being used all that much anymore in production settings and we see why the market offerings are the way they are.


Exactly - if you are looking for a production machine you are a different buyer than most on this site.

Nick... A couple responses...

Manual lathes are long from being dead or extinct and there's a lot of "one-off" work that doesn't make sense to do on a CNC machine. For example, the shafts I work on are all unique and I need explicit hand-control of the dials to make the modifications. I would never dream of doing the mods/repairs I do on a CNC machine. I need the feel of the machine to do it right. Also, many, if not most prototype shops will manually turn all their simple parts to save CNC setup time. If you're just making a couple simple parts, you may indeed need/want CAD drawings but, you probably won't want to spend the time to create G-code and setup a CNC machine.

Production Machines: I could write ad-infinitum about the requests folks make based on common misconceptions. Many people think that a smaller lathe (or mill) can keep-up with a beefy machine. It's all good and I'm not poking fun at anyone -and I always spend the time to help folks understand. There are folks aspiring to do fairly precise (e.g. +/- 0.0001") and somewhat high volume work (qty of 10-20) on 1022 and 1127 style lathes. -Wrong choice. I can get pretty close to that on my 1236 but, it takes a little doing and most of the time, I'll opt to over-size and bring it down with a TPG. I'm doing one-off repairs or fabrications mainly on stainless steel shafts. I really should be using a beefier machine and that would take away some of the "hail mary" factor involved.

Real problems arise when folks aspire to use mills weighing-in between 300 and 500lbs to cut large pieces of hard or tough metal with high precision. Can it be done? -Kinda... -Maybe... -If you're lucky- -If you're really patient and if you can regularly walk on water and glow in the dark... In reality though, to regularly pull that off, you need something in the 2-4 ton range and $40,000 to $100,000 price range or, you need to go-about it with a different approach.


Ray

 

[zmotorsports]

Nothing at all if thats what fits the budget and space. But if one can afford it, buy as big as you can in both a mill and a lathe. Combo machines do both but they dont do either as well as a dedicated set up

Agreed. I had the larger Smithy (CB1239) and it was an ok lathe but a poor milling machine. The round column only being one of the disadvantages. I used the machine for 15+ years and was able to make a lot of nice one-off parts on it as well as made enough to pay for the machine several times over but in the end a dedicated lathe and milling machine are a better solution.

Mike.

 

[rmack898]

I'm not sure where Smithy's are made but the lathe part of the Granite 1324 that I had was a much better lathe than the Chinese 1340 that I run at my day job.

 

[Surprman]

There is another consideration about old lathes and, in general, about every ancient machine.
If I find a Monarch EE10, the historical and aesthetic value of it restrains me to make heavy modifications, trying to keep it in a sort of "museum state".
On a cheap Chinese machine, on the other hand, I would have no remorse to cut, drill and hack it to fit my needs (and maybe to make a fiberglass cover to have a Chinese lathe looking like a Monarch :rofl.

I just completed a restore of a 1941 SB lathe. I found that process to be very enjoyable. A few months earlier I bought a new grizzly G0619 mill. The above comment definitely rings true. I already drilled and tapped holes to mount a DRO system to the mill. I would be hard pressed to make those same modifications to the lathe- I would feel like I was ruining the historic nature of the machine.

 

[xalky]

Nick... A couple responses...

Manual lathes are long from being dead or extinct and there's a lot of "one-off" work that doesn't make sense to do on a CNC machine. For example, the shafts I work on are all unique and I need explicit hand-control of the dials to make the modifications. I would never dream of doing the mods/repairs I do on a CNC machine. I need the feel of the machine to do it right. Also, many, if not most prototype shops will manually turn all their simple parts to save CNC setup time. If you're just making a couple simple parts, you may indeed need/want CAD drawings but, you probably won't want to spend the time to create G-code and setup a CNC machine.

Production Machines: I could write ad-infinitum about the requests folks make based on common misconceptions. Many people think that a smaller lathe (or mill) can keep-up with a beefy machine. It's all good and I'm not poking fun at anyone -and I always spend the time to help folks understand. There are folks aspiring to do fairly precise (e.g. +/- 0.0001") and somewhat high volume work (qty of 10-20) on 1022 and 1127 style lathes. -Wrong choice. I can get pretty close to that on my 1236 but, it takes a little doing and most of the time, I'll opt to over-size and bring it down with a TPG. I'm doing one-off repairs or fabrications mainly on stainless steel shafts. I really should be using a beefier machine and that would take away some of the "hail mary" factor involved.

Real problems arise when folks aspire to use mills weighing-in between 300 and 500lbs to cut large pieces of hard or tough metal with high precision. Can it be done? -Kinda... -Maybe... -If you're lucky- -If you're really patient and if you can regularly walk on water and glow in the dark... In reality though, to regularly pull that off, you need something in the 2-4 ton range and $40,000 to $100,000 price range or, you need to go-about it with a different approach.


Ray

I agree totally.
Manual machines will not go by the way of the dinosaur any more than an air nailer will replace a hammer. I'm doing a lot of lathe work for a busy grinding shop on my manual lathe and they also have 3 manual lathes at thier shop that are being run all day everyday. They also have CNC machines, but for anything less than 10 parts, it makes no sense to spend 4 days programming a cnc machine when the parts can be made in under a day on a manual machine.

Industrial quality machines versus hobby machines? Huge difference. I'm running my big 20" Ikegai lathe 8-9 hours a day right now. I also have a 12" asian lathe that I could run some of the small parts on, and I've tried that. I can make even a small part in 1/2 to 1/3rd the time on the big machine. It cuts deeper, truer, faster and stronger. There's no comparison...period. My next lathe purchase will be a 14-16" industrial quality machine. It will probably be in good used, because to buy such a machine brand new is $30,000 and up. Good stuff aint cheap but oh so worth it.

 

[Ray C]

I agree totally.
Manual machines will not go by the way of the dinosaur any more than an air nailer will replace a hammer. I'm doing a lot of lathe work for a busy grinding shop on my manual lathe and they also have 3 manual lathes at thier shop that are being run all day everyday. They also have CNC machines, but for anything less than 10 parts, it makes no sense to spend 4 days programming a cnc machine when the parts can be made in under a day on a manual machine.

Industrial quality machines versus hobby machines? Huge difference. I'm running my big 20" Ikegai lathe 8-9 hours a day right now. I also have a 12" asian lathe that I could run some of the small parts on, and I've tried that. I can make even a small part in 1/2 to 1/3rd the time on the big machine. It cuts deeper, truer, faster and stronger. There's no comparison...period. My next lathe purchase will be a 14-16" industrial quality machine. It will probably be in good used, because to buy such a machine brand new is $30,000 and up. Good stuff aint cheap but oh so worth it.

Marcell,

If you're looking for something industrial/professional in the 14-16" range, I can saddle you up with something brand new with prices between 8 and 12 grand. This is mainly what I sell and is the main focus of what Matt's business is about. Truth be known, in this line, the main sales are 16-22" swing but they're available in 14" too. With these kinds of lathes, it's almost hard to make a bad selection and most customers just give some basic size specification and don't particularly care exactly which brand because all the ones we carry are the "upper-crust" of modern day production.

I do like your analogy of nail guns vs hammers -very apropos.


Ray

 

[mzayd3]

I am not so much a fan of the cheap imported machinery that is readily available. I have a used (USAF) sheldon lathe that I paid $800 for. It only had a three jaw chuck. I feel that even with the added expense of a 4 jaw chuck, qctp, some cutters, and some misc. stock, I am light years ahead cost wise. I figure that a comparable import would cost about 4 times as much. As far as rebuilding, I don't see it as a bad thing. I did not do much to mine, but did tear it apart to a degree to clean it up. Rebuilding does force you to become more intimate with your machine, which might come in handy when troubleshooting. To reiterate what others have said, there are deals to be had, but you must be patient.