Buying a lathe - new vs old

thenrie said:
You know, I look at those Grizzlies in the catalogs all the time and think how nice it would be to have one, but I love rebuilding things (it's a sickness, I think). Ended up buying a Delta Rockwell 11 and spent 6 months rebuilding it. Paid $720 on ebay, now, 6 months later, I am about $3,000 into it and still looking for several items of tooling that would come with the Grizzly. Howsoever, I have to admit that I am very proud of my Rockwell, now that it's done, and I benefitted from the rebuild, in that I learned a great deal about the machine as well as how to use it. In fact, I bought a South Bend 9A to make parts for the Rockwell. Now that the Rockwell is done, it's time to tear into the South Bend. Having fun!

As I recall, an equivalent Grizzly would run just under $4,000, before shipping, with basic tooling. By the time I collect the rest of the tooling I'd like to have, I'll be somewhere around that mark, but I'll have some items of tooling the Grizzly doesn't come with. My lathe will likely holds its value better than the Grizzly, but then I don't intend to sell it, so that's moot. In the end, it was easier for me to talk the wife into letting me spend $720, then just start nickel and diming the budget until I got everything I needed, rather than to hit her with a bill for $4,000 all at one time.:whistle:

Good luck.
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Good looking lathe, nice job on the restoration.
Sandia
 
Another reason which would drive me to buy a new lathe (apart the fact in Italy is almost impossible to find an used small lathe) is my total lack of "physical" experience and, moreover, of tools to fix an old one.
I know the theory behind lathes (mainly thanks to this forum), but from that to be able to deal with all the unforeseen situations which can emerge from the restoration of an old lathe there is a big leap.
Even a simple task like cutting a woodruff keyseat is hard, if you don't have the right tools, so I can imagine how hard and time consuming it would be to scrap the ways and other similar tasks for someone who never did that, along with the risk of making irreparable (or just expensive) errors.
So I prefer to leave the fun of restoring old lathes to people more skilled than me!
 
Everybody told me that good ol' American Iron is the best until I bought one. It is really easy to buy the "wrong one", just like it is really easy to buy the "wrong" new Asian lathe. Then, you've made some kind of huge mistake that really isn't your fault.

I'm a big fan of incrementailsm, or as matththemuppet puts it, "polishing a turd." From what I have heard, there are some problems with those old American lathes that are nearly insurmountable. I have one friend who only has good ol' American machine tools. When I bought my lathe he told me that it wasn't even worth it for free, and I'd have done better with an Asian lathe. I told him that I will eventually fix it. He said that it will take a huge amount of time and energy that I do not have. Then, he offered me one of his lathes for free. When I told him that I will fix mine first, he got all upset and said that I may not have all that much spare time left.

I think that the best thing to do is to have some resilience, and to be able to get up and walk away from a crash, since it can happen with either kind of machine.
 
Some may like their made in China machines, but my experience has made me very cautious when thinking of ordering another. After a couple expensive and not so successful adventures with import machines I cringe at the thought of having another one in the shop. As an alternative I continually keep my eyes open for high quality used machines on the market. Over the years I've managed to stumble across every machine I could use, and dozens I didn't have room for. Everything from Lathes to mills (both vertical and horizontal), saws, grinders of all types, presses (both mechanical and hydraulic) shapers, drill presses, etc., etc., and tons of tooling. All in excellent condition and at prices that are a fraction of what new import machines cost. I've yet to buy a used industrial quality machine that needed rebuilding or expensive repairs. There are plenty of used, high quality industrial machines available if you know where to look for them.[/QUOTE]


Amen to all that you have said! But, do you think it will end the USA over Import controversy...NOT.
 
FWIW, there's a nice Grizzly for sale here in the Classified Ads section up top that I would buy if I didn't need a lathe.
 
chips&more said:
Some may like their made in China machines, but my experience has made me very cautious when thinking of ordering another. After a couple expensive and not so successful adventures with import machines I cringe at the thought of having another one in the shop. As an alternative I continually keep my eyes open for high quality used machines on the market. Over the years I've managed to stumble across every machine I could use, and dozens I didn't have room for. Everything from Lathes to mills (both vertical and horizontal), saws, grinders of all types, presses (both mechanical and hydraulic) shapers, drill presses, etc., etc., and tons of tooling. All in excellent condition and at prices that are a fraction of what new import machines cost. I've yet to buy a used industrial quality machine that needed rebuilding or expensive repairs. There are plenty of used, high quality industrial machines available if you know where to look for them.
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Amen to all that you have said! But, do you think it will end the USA over Import controversy...NOT.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure it won't end the controversy. I just have a problem with those that "have heard" all old American iron is clapped out, and that new imports are the only way to go. I'm sure there are a lot of clapped out machines on the market. They're either being sold by people who "got a deal" at an auction, and later found out it wasn't such a good deal, unscrupulous dealers that have no conscience and are strictly in it for the money, or possibly those that inherited something from grandpa, that believe it's worth more than it actually is.

In turn these clapped out machines are being purchased by people who either have no clue what they're buying, or sorely underestimate what it will take to get it in running condition. If you're new to the business or hobby and find a machine you're interested in, take someone along to look at it that has experience and knows what to look for.

A large percentage of machines that are being removed from production are being removed not because they're worn out, but rather because they are no longer economically viable. Machines (especially manual ones) can't move at the speed of a CNC machine. They were never designed to, and since time is money a shop can't remain profitable if it takes 2 - 3 times longer to produce a part than the competition.

A while ago I was talking to a friend that owns a large production shop. He does contract work for several automobile manufacturers. He was showing me a part they had been making for one manufacturer. It was a brake bleeder screw that took all of 2.8 seconds to produce on an older screw machine. Although the machine ran fine and was in good condition he was considering replacing it with a CNC machine. The new machine could produce the same part in less than 2.3 seconds. Although 1/2 a second doesn't sound like much time consider the time savings over a 1,000,000 part run. He was afraid he could loose the contract because of the differential in time (and cost) it took to produce the part on an old piece of iron.

If he does replace the machine there will be another quality piece of "old American Iron" on the market. It will probably go to a shop that does smaller parts runs, and isn't looking for the speed or expense of a CNC machine
 
Splat said:
FWIW, there's a nice Grizzly for sale here in the Classified Ads section up top that I would buy if I didn't need a lathe.
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It's a four-hour drive from me. It's kind of hard to buy something sight-unseen, and kind of hard to blow a whole day driving and a bunch of gasoline when you might come home empty-handed.
 
Tanshanomi said:
It's a four-hour drive from me. It's kind of hard to buy something sight-unseen, and kind of hard to blow a whole day driving and a bunch of gasoline when you might come home empty-handed.
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Sorry. I was always bad with geography. :D
 
The other part of the problem is some places, old machines are around and there is enough of them on the market to make them reasonable. Other places, not so much. Here I see ridiculous prices on the few that show up. If I am shopping out of town, I would be looking at 500-1000 mile round trip to get anywhere just for a look-see. Then, if I liked it, I would have to get it home. As an example, I currently see someone local on craigslist asking $5600 for a beat up old Jet that I wouldn't buy for $2000 if it were to magically appear in my garage. Forget the 20"x "I have no idea how long that sucker is" monster that wouldn't even fit in my garage for $7000 (which might actually be a bargain). Next closest would be a 500+ mile round trip to San Antonio or farther.

Thankfully, there are the fine people at Grizzly, Precision Matthews, and several others where I can just click my mouse or pick up the phone and a machine will suddenly appear in my driveway. No crating, rigging crew, or truck or trailer rental. No days off work, gas, or hotel costs either.
 
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