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Atlas MFC Knee Gears

Discussion in 'ATLAS, CRAFTSMAN & AA' started by greenman, Aug 18, 2017.

  1. greenman

    greenman United States Iron Registered Member

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    I was wondering if anyone knows of a gear to replace the S7-60 helical gears in the knee? The ones in this MFC seem to have seen better days. Was also wondering what size the thrust bearing is supposed to be. This machine just had some brass washers. Thanks!
     

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  2. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Green,

    I don't have any of the S7-60 gears, nor the specs on them. But I would suggest calling Clausing. They may still have them. If not, they can probably send you either a drawing or the specs.

    Same on the M1-83 ball thrust bearing. It looks pretty much like the two 3-piece ones on the late 12" lead screw. Except that the M1-83 will be for a 3/8" shaft.

    Phone # at Clausing is 800-323-0972 or 800-535-6553.
     
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  3. francist

    francist Canada Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Unfortunate timing, I just put all the pieces of my knee back together and on the machine about three days ago. Could have easily measured the thrust bearing while it was apart.

    -frank
     
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  4. greenman

    greenman United States Iron Registered Member

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    Well I got in contact with Clausing and it seems those parts aren't available. I'll have to improvise or invest in some parts from eBay. Sadly I doubt there would be any resale value in a knee screw once I stripped the gear and bearing off it. Anyhow, thanks all.
     
  5. francist

    francist Canada Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Have you looked at Boston Gear? I wouldn't expect them to be cheap, but I just poked the helical gears section of their catalogue and I'm thinking with the existing ones you still have and the information they provide on how to measure them you may be able to find stock replacements. Might be worth looking into, at least you'd know how much new ones would cost.

    -frank
     
  6. greenman

    greenman United States Iron Registered Member

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    I think it's possible a pair of their H1612R would fit. The originals are left hand but so long as they're a pair they'll work right? A little pricey but I suppose helix gears are less common than plain gears.
     
  7. francist

    francist Canada Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I see they also have the left hand version of that in an H1612L gear. I'm no gear expert by any stretch, but wouldn't you want to stay with the same left vs right as the original configuration? Otherwise the knee would go in the opposite direction wouldn't it?

    -frank
     
  8. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    GR,

    Short answer to your question is yes. But the down side of changing the "handedness" is that the hand wheel rotation will be backwards to what would be expected for lifting the table. And the dial will run backwards. Both of which will promote errors. If they list H1612R, they should list 1612L. Both are shown in their catalog. Note that I am not confirming that H1612 is what the originals actually are, because I have no idea.

    Note that helical gears aren't necessarily less common than spur or straight bevel gears. But they would probably be more expensive to make. And everything costs more today than you would think that it was going to. :eek:
     
  9. greenman

    greenman United States Iron Registered Member

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    Okay yes you are correct. It would run backward. An extra ten bucks a piece for the left hand. Oh well.
     
  10. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    BTW, after Clausing told you that they no longer carried the gears, did you ask about a drawing?
     
  11. greenman

    greenman United States Iron Registered Member

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    I got a cheap thrust bearing and shimmed it to what I was told was the thickness of an original bearing by someone that had one apart. I think it is wider than the original but it doesn't seem to matter. The gears actually turn fairly well with a bearing in place instead the old shims it had. So for now I'll hold off on buying gears.

    Planning on getting some aw32 hydraulic fluid to lube most of the machine. It's basically what the manual calls for as far as I can tell. An ISO 32 10 weight oil.

    Was wondering what kind of graphite grease is good for the gears? There's some moly-graph grease on Amazon. Would that be alright? Thanks.
     

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  12. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    GR,

    Around 1960 or so, Atlas changed the recommendation for the oil used most places on the machines to SAE 20 (ISO 68). For several years, SAE 20 wasn't generally available but for maybe the past year it has been available again by the gallon from Tractor Supply. Until then, I had used Mobil Heavy Medium Circulating Oil (ISO 68) everywhere except on the ways where I have been using a way oil (more tacky) but I bought it with several sets of the felts and don't know who made it.

    On the grease, I would recommend a graphite bearing high temperature rated grease because many common greases tend to liquify at temperatures not much above 120 F and will sling off too easily.
     
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  13. greenman

    greenman United States Iron Registered Member

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    Interesting. I hadn't read about the change. So you're using the store brand 20 weight non-detergent motor oil? I can get some of that. Thanks again!
     
  14. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I forget exactly what edition of the MOLO it changed in but it was around 1960. And yes, that's what I have always used.
     
  15. greenman

    greenman United States Iron Registered Member

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    I got some open gear grease and the 20 weight oil. Been doing some reassembly. Something I noticed is the lead screw seems too long? Someone had added a thick bushing on the left to shore it up, but one on ebay has this bit on the right side? The manual doesn't seem to have anything this wide shown? Anyone know what is correct?
     

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  16. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I don't have an explanation as to why the lead screw seems too long. But I do note that between the original M1 and MF and the "C" models, the cross-feed screw, screw extension, left plate and right plate have been revised one, one, two and three times respectively. It could be that someone replaced one of more of the parts with a different revision. But we don't have the drawings on the four parts, so no way to tell,
     
  17. greenman

    greenman United States Iron Registered Member

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    I drilled out the spacer that was on the left side to 1/2 in and moved it to the right. With the dial on the left already it stuck out too much in my opinion. I also had to modify a nut to fit the left side. There was none on when I got it. Put it on a bolt and spun it in the drill press while grinding it round. Just some parts out of the junk bin. It sticks out the end but it gets the job done. I don't have a lathe to make a little one like the original easily. Handle was also broken when I got it but I'll live with it. So that's the table back on and adjusted to the best of my current abilities. A few more things to do but it's coming along well.
     

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  18. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Looks good. The crank is an L2-61A. The same one is used on the cross feed on the 10F and both versions of the 12". So finding a used one should be no problem.
     
  19. Rob

    Rob United States Active Member Active Member

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    Not sure if all my parts are original but this is a picture of the right hand side of mine.

    IMG_2222.JPG
     
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  20. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    That looks OK except that the 9-103 handle is either missing or broken off. You can probably a new one from Clausing. If the old handle broke off instead of fell out, I would wait until getting the replacement before trying th extract the broken part. The hole may be slightly tapered.
     
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  21. greenman

    greenman United States Iron Registered Member

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    Thanks! Seems yours is spaced on the right hand side also. Good to know!
     
  22. greenman

    greenman United States Iron Registered Member

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    Anyone know the dimensions for the spring and ball that go into the bull gear? M6-257 and M6-214. I found a 1/8 ball that seems to fit but no springs in the junk drawer do. Thanks. Also I wish I had given this thread a more general name. Hah.
     
  23. francist

    francist Canada Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I have M6-214 listed from Atlas as 1/8" ball so you should be good there. As for the spring, mine was pretty hokey when I pulled it apart so I ended up making a new one out of one I had on hand that was close. I just checked my notes, and foolishly I did not measure it (for such future reference) before I put it back in. Maybe someone else will come through on that dimension for you.

    -frank
     
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  24. greenman

    greenman United States Iron Registered Member

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    Thanks!
     
  25. francist

    francist Canada Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hey, you're in in luck. The part is the same as what was used on the 6" lathe bull gears, and I just happen to have a Craftsman one in pieces right now. So, snuck it out of the assembly and it measures:

    Overall length is 0.270" uncompressed
    It's kind of necked in the middle, so there's two diameters, 0.136" and 0.125"
    There are about ten turns, and the wire diameter is 0.020"

    Here's a pic.

    -frank

    image.jpeg
     
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  26. greenman

    greenman United States Iron Registered Member

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    Ah interesting. Thanks for the specs!
     
  27. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Frank,

    FYI, the M6- prefix means that the part so numbered was first used in the 618. If you look over the parts list for the mill, you will see a lot of parts beginning M1-, meaning that they were new to the system when Atlas built the mill, MF-, meaning they were only used on the mill with power feed, 9- or 10- meaning that they were first used on the 9" or 10" lathe, Ln (where n is 2 through 6) meaning early 12" and S7- meaning the Atlas shaper.
     
  28. francist

    francist Canada Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Yes, thanks for that. I was aware of the multiple uses of a part across different machines and the way you have it summarized here is a good reference bit to keep on hand.

    -frank
     
  29. CluelessNewB

    CluelessNewB Active Resistor H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I believe the "51" prefix parts were from the 12 3/4" drill press. (Handle and knob for the mill countershaft assembly).
     
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  30. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    OK. Thanks. I don't recall where or what but somewhere I saw a part from a table saw on one of the machine tools.
     

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