4 Jaw Chuck Issues - Help!

Thanks Pontiac! I have a 6" back plate. So I should turn a boss down so that if fits inside and touches the reference face where the bolt holes are? I will leave a small air gap for the rest or maybe turn it down to 4-1/2". I hate cast iron dust...
I'm gonna have to buy a bottoming tap for the mounting holes that do not go all the way thru.
Yep. You can let the backplate and chuck kiss, but you don't want to influence the chuck when you bolt it on with a too tight fit like you already identified. Err on the side of air.

I am not loyal to Bison for any particular reason, there are a lot of chucks I've liked equally, but they are what I have ended up with. The thing about the Bison chucks, coming from budget chucks, is that they take the chuck out of the equation when working. They always grip, they always center, they always run true. They hold the work, and that's all there is to it, you'll never think about chuck problems again.

It's really hard to have to "make do" with a chuck.
 
I am following you activity with interest. I have a similar issue on the 10” 4J that came with my MK Enterprise lathe (it was near new in 1983, when I bought the machine, the chuck had been fitted and is serial numbered to the lathe - still the axis did not line up to the lathe bed). It didn’t really cause that much trouble for me, for the first 30 years of ownership I just used it and didn’t worry about it. The chuck is branded Mysore Kirloskar (MK), they probably did make it. Strictly speaking it is not a premium chuck, the body wobbles around.

I have been through the back plate setup described here on HM else where (a few years ago). It is more relevant to a 3J, but still some learnings for any chuck. I have cut the jaws on my 3J. I mostly followed the approach of Robin Brenz (3J will have hard jaws, I used a TBC insert, it worked out great). Robin goes through a presentation on how much the chuck face deflects - thus the jaws will come outward. Ideally you want the jaws to be straight when under load (thus they will be coned in smaller at the nose when not loaded).

I somewhat tuned the 4J when I tuned the back plate. The next step was to put my 14” 4J on and turned a piece of 2” bar (which was then true to the lathe), and then mounted the 10” 4J backwards onto that 2” bar, and skimmed the rear mounting surface of the 10” 4J. It addressed about half of the axis misalignment (got it down to about 0.006” per foot).

I took the approach of using cash to solve the problem. I recently purchased a direct mount D1-4 Bison 4J. It is very pretty. I have only just started playing with it. The first finding was that it seems to pull up funny on the D1 spindle mount - to get the face to run true I need to run a dial on the face as I snug the 3 cams. It also sticks pretty hard on the spindle mount (I think the chuck should stick, but not to the point of needing a smack with a dead blow hammer - just a fist bump and it ought to come free). My guess is that I am not getting good contact on the flat face of the spindle nose. Regardless I’ll play around a bit more before doing anything drastic.

Back to the issue of fixing the off axis grip on the old 4J. I still want to fix the old MK chuck. I intend to hold it in the 14” chuck, dial in the body and recut the back mounting surface, then using a jaw loading ring (looks sort of like a 4 leaf clover shaped center that slips over the jaw tips so the load is near the end of the jaws (as you pointed out). Then I’ll run a boring bar through, the jaws are not hardened. The jaw ID will be concave, probably not a big deal, but I have a dozen chucks across the fleet and all are concave, so I’ll keep it that way.

Please continue posting your progress, seem the off axis issues is not uncommon on a 4J.
 
Chipper- Thanks for your interest. Your comments on the sticking chuck are not normal. You either have a bad spindle nose or a bad chuck. Try to measure them and compare to specs. If you can grind your 4J rather than turning it you may be happier with the precision and the finish.
 
Hi Robert, thank you for getting back to me. The post I have referenced is https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/mounting-d1-3-three-jaw-chuck.72187/ See comments by Bob K (Post #26 and others). I think his advice is quite sound and reasonable.

I have 5 other spindle tools for this lathe - they all fit properly so I believe the spindle is geometry is good (and 4 more from another lathe that is also D1-4, I have not seen the need to try all of them because it requires a cam pin adjustment).

I don’t have the tooling to measure the taper mount on the lathe / chuck. Giving the nature of the taper, a difference (error) of 0.0001” is quite a bit of movement on the taper. If I am off the flat face by even 0.001”, then that means the taper is off by a very small amount. I believe the taper is 14.25 degrees included angle, so 7.125 degrees per side - so 0.0008” travel? (My math could be a bit wobbly)?

When I trued my 3J (which has hard jaws), I just used a solid carbide boring bar with a TBC insert (per Robin Renzetti). My loading ring was different because I have 2 piece jaws on that chuck (took advantage of the bolts that secure the jaw tops). The result was excellent (quite happy with the precision and the finish. In fairness since I didn’t also try grinding it, then I can’t compare, maybe it would have been even better?). I was going with, “if good enough for Robin, then really good enough for me”. That chuck is now pretty well spot on (<0.001 tir on a 1” bar, 1” out, I don’t know what it was further out, perhaps I didn’t check it, can’t remember?). David
 

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Just to close the loop on this...I ended up buying a NOS Bison 6" 4 jaw on eBay. I mounted it on an extra thick D1-3 back plate. I have all 4 mounting bolts threaded in at least 1/4".

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The chuck is in almost perfect shape! The back plate from Grizzly is not the best quality cast iron but I was able to machine it properly and get the D1-3 2.820" bolt circle to mesh with the 2.750" bolt hole circle. One of the holes intersects but there was enough meat to thread.
Best of all, the measured axial runout is <.001' at 5" out from the chuck.
Moral of the story is "buy once, cry once." I am slowly learning....
Call me compulsive but I don't like the finish on the C.I. back plate. I could not get a better finish by turning. I may try to grind it just to improve the look.
 
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Nice find! You're probably not going to see any kind of trouble in your lifetime with that one.
 
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Some good info on scroll chucks here:
 
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