Hi Everyone. I just bought a 109.21280 Craftsman Lathe. First lathe I owned. I did spend 2 years in votec for Machine Shop but that was over 30 years ago. I got this to play around with it. It came with a 5" 3 jaw chuck, but it does not fit the lathe - the plate does not match up. I am not sure what the chuck was from, but would it better to sell it and get the exact chuck for this if I can even find it? Or is there a way to make this fit the plate I have? Also, how would I go about getting the plate off? Thank you!
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109.21280 Craftsman Lathe - Newbee Questions
- Thread starter budzinsk
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2013
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- 3,638
Hi @budzinsk !
welcome to the forum.
if you are attached to the old chuck, you could turn the backplate in place to the desired size
that is ,of course, if the backplate is oversized.
if the current backplate is undersize, you'd do better to construct a new one or purchase a commercially available unit
you'll need to ascertain the bolt circle for the intended chuck to mount to the modified plate
to get the old plate off, i would entertain the thought of bolts protruding from the present faceplate, and a lever of suitable material
i would then hold the spindle by either internal or external means (as simple or complex as you would like to make it)-
an expanding arrangement for internal spindle holding, a compressing arrangement for external holding
wedges could be employed to lock the spindle
as could a strap wrench
the spindle threads are right hand threads, the faceplate will come off with counter-clockwise rotation
avoid banging on the lever with repeated blows
you may wish to abandon hammering altogether to preserve the integrity of the spindle bearings,
unless the intention is to replace the bearings- then by all means hammer away
if the faceplate is really stuck, the application of penetrating fluids would be advisable
i can attest to Colonel Red's Antirust elixir for a penetrating fluid for this purpose, i have done it 3 times on crusty chucks
it's very simple to make..
1 part ATF (automatic transmission fluid- any kind works) 1 Part Acetone, 1 Part Kerosene (No.1 Diesel fuel will work in a pinch)
combine in a metal or suitable plastic container and shake heavily
how to use it...
apply very liberally to the surfaces adjacent to the threaded area, numerous times over a week period- if the faceplate appears very stuck
fewer applications may only be necessary and the static time frame would also be reflective of the corrosion present.
the Colonel Reds can be used as an anti-rusting solution, if used as a preemptive external coating before storage of easily oxidized metals
welcome to the forum.
if you are attached to the old chuck, you could turn the backplate in place to the desired size
that is ,of course, if the backplate is oversized.
if the current backplate is undersize, you'd do better to construct a new one or purchase a commercially available unit
you'll need to ascertain the bolt circle for the intended chuck to mount to the modified plate
to get the old plate off, i would entertain the thought of bolts protruding from the present faceplate, and a lever of suitable material
i would then hold the spindle by either internal or external means (as simple or complex as you would like to make it)-
an expanding arrangement for internal spindle holding, a compressing arrangement for external holding
wedges could be employed to lock the spindle
as could a strap wrench
the spindle threads are right hand threads, the faceplate will come off with counter-clockwise rotation
avoid banging on the lever with repeated blows
you may wish to abandon hammering altogether to preserve the integrity of the spindle bearings,
unless the intention is to replace the bearings- then by all means hammer away
if the faceplate is really stuck, the application of penetrating fluids would be advisable
i can attest to Colonel Red's Antirust elixir for a penetrating fluid for this purpose, i have done it 3 times on crusty chucks
it's very simple to make..
1 part ATF (automatic transmission fluid- any kind works) 1 Part Acetone, 1 Part Kerosene (No.1 Diesel fuel will work in a pinch)
combine in a metal or suitable plastic container and shake heavily
how to use it...
apply very liberally to the surfaces adjacent to the threaded area, numerous times over a week period- if the faceplate appears very stuck
fewer applications may only be necessary and the static time frame would also be reflective of the corrosion present.
the Colonel Reds can be used as an anti-rusting solution, if used as a preemptive external coating before storage of easily oxidized metals
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2013
- Messages
- 10,142
Be very careful of hammering, and do not use the back gears to lock the spindle, the gears are made of pot metal and could be easily damaged. There was a posting recently where the guy was having the same problem removing the chuck, he made a curved wedge with several gear teeth on it's inner face and a lug to seat against the headstock top surface, it was made of hard wood, he inserted it against the bull gear and used some sort of wrench or lever to break loose the chuck/backplate. The teeth on the block can be traced against the bull gear and carefully sawn out, they should be nicely fit to the gear teeth to share the strain against the several teeth.
Thank you so much for the detailed explanation! I appreciate the quick and detailed response.
Thank you for the response and advice!
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2013
- Messages
- 1,448
If you look at the old Sears catalogs you will find that the largest chuck they offered for the 6" lathes (both 109 AA and 101 Atlas) was 4". Even if you can fit that 5" chuck you will not be able to use the capacity because the jaws will extend too far on large items and will hit the bed. If it were me I would keep the backing plate, sell the chuck and look for something more appropriate.
Thank you! I would like to find one that would fit the backing plate without modifications, but I assume that will be a long shot?
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2013
- Messages
- 1,448
BTW you may want to upload some pictures of your lathe over on the Vintage Machinery web site. I don't believe that they have a photo of that model.
http://www.vintagemachinery.org/
http://www.vintagemachinery.org/
Thanks. I just registered and uploaded the picture.
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Messages
- 10,525
@budzinsk,
Back in 2017 and again in 2018, two other people also reported having a 109.21280. I have been through the nearly complete run of Sears Power Tools catalogs but don't find it listed. If anyone ever does, please let me know.
One of the two previous reports said that the spindle nose threads were 1"-10, which is the same thread as found on the Atlas 612, 618, 3950 and 10100. And the Craftsman 101.21400 and 101.21200. However, he reported that chucks with that tread would only go onto the spindle about one turn. Someone asked about it maybe having 1"-8 threads like the Craftsman 101.07301 but he apparently never answered. So we still don;t know what the correct answer is. If you are successful in removing the face plate or backing plate from your spindle, please measure and report what threads you found.
Can you make and post a few more photos of your machine? In particular one or more that will show what type of back gears it has. FYI, all of the Atlas built lathes have a large gear (commonly called the Bull Gear) and a separate small gear (usually called the Spindle Gear) on the spindle and a back gear with the same size gears but in the reverse order mounted either to the rear of or underneath the spindle. By contrast, the 109.21270 and two earlier Sears models that we know anything about all three have a planetary gear assembly mounted approximately where the Bull Gear is located in the Atlas machines and in almost all other lathe brands that we know anything about.
Also, as a general comment, "pot metal" is usually a deliberately derogatory term used by people who either don't know any better or who want to imply without quite saying so that all of the machines made by Atlas and AA are worthless junk. Its use in that manner will not be tolerated on this site.