Wife’s van getting misfire codes

[great white]

Well, the wife’s 2014 town and country minivan is getting the “infamous” #2 cylinder misfire codes.

Its a pentastar 3.6L and they have a few known issues that cause #2 misfire codes.

One issue is a cracked cylinder head.

Supposedly, they fixed that mid 2013 and mine is late 2014. They even extended the warranty out to 100k on 2011-2013, but mine falls outside that. I did a compression test and a leak-down test and it passed both with flying colors. So (fingers crossed) the head seems to be good. Van has 198,000 kms (approx 123,000 miles) on it so I would expect a head crack to show up a long time ago if it was going to go.

The other thing these engines do is kill cam followers (ie:rockers). They are roller followers and have needle bearings in the roller. These bearings get beat up and fail over time, usually resulting in misfires and a “tick” noise. When they go, they tend to take out the cam lobe they are on (its just how its designed).

But, we get the misfire, I check it out and clear the code and it takes a week or two for it to return. Theres also no “lifter tick” noise that is typical of a follower failure, so I’m hoping I’m going to catch it before it eats the cam lobe.

The van is at the bodyshop for a bit of corrosion repair and a repaint, so I don’t have it here to work on until about end next week.


But….watching the news and I see the UAW has walked out. Seems they’re pretty far apart on offers/demands too.

My local dealer had the followers (ie:rockers) and lash adjusters (ie: lifters) in stock. I figured I’d just head down and buy enough of each to cover the entire bank thats getting the misfires because if the strike drags on and the dealer runs out of the parts I need, it may be a while before I can get the parts to fix the van. Thats unlikely, but you never know…

Having the van down for a prolonged period isn’t an option for us. She’s driving her Mini Cooper right now, but when winter hits she will need the van (the Mini is NOT a good winter car), so its got to be fixed in short order. Can’t have it down for months waiting on parts.

I’ll likely just replace all the followers on the affected bank. Mostly because if one is going the others probably aren’t far behind and its a big job on a DOHC engine. They also redesigned the rollers/bearings in the followers so it’s worth swapping them out for that reason too. The lash adjusters will be replaced as needed as they usually don’t fail or its just one or two that either seize up or collapse.

I confirmed with the parts manager that if I didn’t need them, I could return them as long as I don’t open the packages.

Parts failures, Autoworker strikes, parts revisions, winter, etc etc.

It seemed so much simpler fixing cars when I was younger. Take it apart, parts store hands you the stuff over counter and you’re done.

Now, it seems like everything everywhere affects how you do anything…seriously, having to take into account a uaw strike that may mean tou can’t get oarts. How the world has changed…

 

[matthewsx]

I was driving the Cadillac the other night and it randomly started misfiring on the freeway. Seems like any small random thing can cause problems when you're dealing with computer controlled systems. Maybe just part of running newer cars far longer than the manufacturers expected, miss the days of cleaning my points halfway between here and Los Angeles and gapping with a matchbook cover....

John

 

[great white]

I was driving the Cadillac the other night and it randomly started misfiring on the freeway. Seems like any small random thing can cause problems when you're dealing with computer controlled systems. Maybe just part of running newer cars far longer than the manufacturers expected, miss the days of cleaning my points halfway between here and Los Angeles and gapping with a matchbook cover....

John

Thing about misfire codes is it's a symptom, not the cause. Most people see "misfire #2" and go right to the coils or spark plugs. Hey. it's a misfire, that's a spark problem, right?

Nope.

Many things will cause a misfire. Valve issues, compression issues, timing issues, valve seats dropping out (far more common on today thin wall castings), CPS, MASS air problems, vacuum leaks, etc etc.

The old troubleshooting skills are still valid. People have just become to reliant on the OBD to tell them what it is, when all the OBD can tell you is what it's seeing....and what it is seeing is the symptom, not the cause. It just knows there's a misfire, not why.

Sidebar: I'm very happy not to have to gap/sand points anymore. I'll take digital any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I'm fine with still using carbs (outside of emissions, cold start and MPG issues) But ignition? Nope, digital all the way....

 

[matthewsx]

Thing about misfire codes is it's a symptom, not the cause. Most people see "misfire #2" and go right to the coils or spark plugs. Hey. it's a misfire, that's a spark problem, right?

Nope.

Many things will cause a misfire. Vlave issues, compression issues, timing issues, valve seats dropping out (far more common on today thin wall castings), CPS, MASS air problems, vacuum leaks, etc etc.

The old troubleshooting skill sare still valid. People have just become to reliant on the OBD to tell them what it is, when all the OBD can tell you is what it's seeing....and what it is seeing is the symptom, not the cause.

Sidebar: I'm very happy not to have to ga points anymore. I'll take digital any day of the week and twice on sunday. I'm fine with still using carbs (outside of emmisions, cold start and MPG issues), but ignition? Nope, digital all the way....

Yep, my wife seems to think I just go in and swap around some parts and it'll be fixed. Standard troubleshooting still applies but systems are much more sophisticated than 50 years ago. Variable valve timing, emissions devices, sensors, etc. all make for many more things that can cause problems these days. Also, just physically accessing stuff is harder the way modern engines are built.

I too wouldn't really want to go back to points, but you could carry a spare set with condenser in the glove box and it cost less than $10, it's always the condenser anyway....

I pretty much figure the Cadillac will get sold when something major goes wrong with it. I have neither the time, training, nor desire to dig into this thing as far as you've gone with your cars. Only paid $2k so it owes me nothing at this point.

Also, happy to be out of the frozen north. Battery power is likely to be our next ride now that there's no more sub-zero days to contend with.

Cheers,

John

 

[great white]

Yep, my wife seems to think I just go in and swap around some parts and it'll be fixed. Standard troubleshooting still applies but systems are much more sophisticated than 50 years ago. Variable valve timing, emissions devices, sensors, etc. all make for many more things that can cause problems these days. Also, just physically accessing stuff is harder the way modern engines are built.

I too wouldn't really want to go back to points, but you could carry a spare set with condenser in the glove box and it cost less than $10, it's always the condenser anyway....

I pretty much figure the Cadillac will get sold when something major goes wrong with it. I have neither the time, training, nor desire to dig into this thing as far as you've gone with your cars. Only paid $2k so it owes me nothing at this point.

Also, happy to be out of the frozen north. Battery power is likely to be our next ride now that there's no more sub-zero days to contend with.

Cheers,

John

Yep. new cars suck to work on. You can tell they were designed for speed of assembly and not maintenance. Everything is in the way of everything else. Hell, to just change the spark plugs on the wifes van the whole top part of the intake manifold has to come off.

You don't even want to know what it was like re-ringing her mini cooper. New curse words were invented every day.


And plastic. PLASTIC! Everywhere under the hood. The mini and the van use PLASTIC link pipes for the COOLING SYSTEM which is under both heat and pressure. The mini even uses a plastic thermostat housing.

And if all that isn't galling enough, the oil control rings on the mini use PLASTIC oil control rings. Yup, you read right, plastic piston rings! It the main reason why I had to rebuild the engine under 100K. The rings go slack, allow too much oil to bypass and cokes things up solid. This is what my exhaust manifold looked like when I pulled it off:



Yeah BMW, plastic oil control rings....great idea....German engineering ain't what it used to be....

Gotta say,I really don't like the trend. Just more of the throw away society mentality....

 

[matthewsx]

Yep, one of the best things about having run my own shop is that I can usually tell the difference between jobs I'm going to do myself, jobs I will farm out, and jobs that are better off not being done at all (replacement).

John

 

[markba633csi]

You can say that again- what about the BMW nikasil/crapasil fiasco

 

[great white]

You can say that again- what about the BMW nikasil/crapasil fiasco

I've only dealt with Nikasil on motorcycle engines. Primarily dirtbike thumpers. Works great there, until it wears out that is. Then...jebus crisp....not exactly an "at home" fix....

 

[markba633csi]

Had something to do with the sulfur in the fuel, but oh boy, it was a mess- lot of blocks replaced
and a lot of po'ed customers

 

[great white]

Yeah, cars are intended to be "throw away" items these days. The OEM's know what they are doing. Make it cheap, sell it expensive, build it just robust enough to get out of warranty, make it difficult to fix, drag em back in to buy a new one and give nothing for the old/broken one.

I'm no communist, marksist or socialist, but it sure seems like capitalism has run amuck these days and the "little people" are the ones paying for it....corporate greed unchecked. Plain and simple.

Those cam followers and lash adjusters for the wife's van?

For 12 each - 500 bucks. Just out of control. You do't even ant to know how much an intake or exhaust cam costs....let alone the head.