Why no small high-quality lathes?

[Downunder Bob]

A true Hobbyist,Cost before quality.

Unfortunately for most of us that is the way it has to be, yet I find many who can afford better, but still buy the cheapest they can find and complain about the faults.

I like to buy the best I can afford, leaving out the bells and whistles, like DRO, and CNC. I don't consider them hobby essentials, ok a DRO can be useful on a machine that is old and worn out, or even just badly calibrated, but CNC, are you a machinist or a programmer?

 

[Downunder Bob]

I currently have an old Jet 9x20 that needs replacing. My problem is that I have very little room in my shop, so I am limited to a 9x, 10x, or maybe 11x24. 12x is just too large, as is x36.

The problem is that I can't find a quality full-featured lathe in that size range. The Chinese lathes I can find are generally in the $1,000 range for a 9x to the $1,600 range for an 11x. But these are not quality or full-featured lathes. Usually no VFD, usually a combo threading/turning lead screw, often no reverse power carriage feed, usually no power cross feed, usually limited thread pitches, usually no Cam Lock chuck, often too slow of a top speed (1,500 RPM or less), usually too fast of minimum turning feed rate, never a brake, ..., etc.

The closest thing I've found to approximately what I'm looking for is the Southbend 8K (8x18) (South Bend Lathe Co.) for about $3,000. But it is a step down in size from what I want, and I'd rather stay at 9x or go a step up.

The next closest thing I've found is the Precision Mathews PM1127VF-LB (PM1127VF Lathe). But it has some threading weirdnesses, is hard to get, and has a bit too large of a footprint for my space.

I want a new lathe, not a used lathe or old-style lathe. I'm willing to pay in the range of $3,500 for a 9x and $5,000 for an 11x, i.e., two to three times the price of standard Chinese lathes from Grizzly/Enco/Jet ...

Does no such thing exist, or have I just not found it? I find it hard to believe there is no market for such a machine.

Any pointers to a new, small, high-quality, full-featured lathe would be appreciated. Or even confirmation that none exist would help.

Thanks, Keith

They are out there but can be hard to find, many importers only bring in selected models but if you contact the makers in Taiwan you will find they do make them. You'll just have to import one direct, or find an importer who will get you one, that is what I had to do..

 

[MSD0]

A true Hobbyist,Cost before quality.

When the difference in price is $3K for the PM with every option (DRO, 5C collet chuck, stand, etc.) vs $10K for a similarly configured Wabeco, I can live with a machine that's a little rough around the edges. At the end of the day, I don't think you could tell the difference between a part made on the PM vs the Wabeco.

 

[Downunder Bob]

When the difference in price is $3K for the PM with every option (DRO, 5C collet chuck, stand, etc.) vs $10K for a similarly configured Wabeco, I can live with a machine that's a little rough around the edges. At the end of the day, I don't think you could tell the difference between a part made on the PM vs the Wabeco.

That may be true, I'm fairly certain that the Pm for $3k would be made in china. The Pm machines made in Taiwan start at around $5k and are at least 2 to 3 times the quality of the chinese ones. The Wabeco is, I believe made in Germany, definitely chalk and cheese. I'm surprised the price difference isn't even bigger. The Wabeco would have to be 5 times better, at only 3.3 times the price, bargain. I would scrimp and save, beg even borrow if that was my choice. However at the end of the day, the choice is always personal, and each to their own.

 

[BROCKWOOD]

I've heard it said the Asian machines should be considered a kit to modify & improve upon almost upon receiving it. But that is precisely what it took to get my foot in the door. Didn't hurt that much of my learning has been in making parts for my purchase. I'm just thankful that instead of settling for a bench top mill, I was able to get the combo. Lathe is so much more needed than I could have guessed. Since splitting out the power on the lathe & mill portions of the combo, I have auto feed on the mill! Yes, they are on separate dedicated breakers! Electrical safety is important too.
Get what you can afford & make it work! Would not be hear without the desire to make chips!

 

[Downunder Bob]

I've heard it said the Asian machines should be considered a kit to modify & improve upon almost upon receiving it. But that is precisely what it took to get my foot in the door. Didn't hurt that much of my learning has been in making parts for my purchase. I'm just thankful that instead of settling for a bench top mill, I was able to get the combo. Lathe is so much more needed than I could have guessed. Since splitting out the power on the lathe & mill portions of the combo, I have auto feed on the mill! Yes, they are on separate dedicated breakers! Electrical safety is important too.
Get what you can afford & make it work! Would not be hear without the desire to make chips!

I like that "A kit to modify and improve". I don't have a problem with modifying and improving. I just would not be happy with having to strip down and rebuild a brand new machine because it was so badly built. Yes I know not all Asian machines are quite that bad, but far too many are. Having said that the Japanese, Korean (Sth) and Taiwanese machines are definatley worth looking at. Their build quality is usually quite good.

 

[ben_r_]

Wow, long running thread here. I have kinda been stuck in this same boat trying to figure out what I wanted to go with for my first lathe. I've got size constraints in what I can fit in my shop and certainly cost constraints, and what I'm thinking about using it for typically wouldn't be very large parts at all. Probably all well under 12" in length.

Started off thinking I wanted to go with a Sherline lathe, but that seemed like I'd outgrow it quickly being that Id like to work with stainless. Then I thought the LMS 3540 or Weiss WBL210V would be the best of the chinese offerings in my size/application. I guess the Precision Mathews PM-1022V or PM-1127VF and the South Bend SB1001 would be somewhere after that. Then I found Wabeco (specifically the D4000E) and so far those seem to be unrivaled in terms of build quality and not being made in china, but they are sooo much more than I was hoping to spend. It doesn't look like anyone in the US sells the D2000 or D2400 Wabeco and I'm not even sure those do enough/have enough features.

So I've sat here stuck in between the <$1000 - <$6000 gap that seems to exist if you don't want to go with Grizzly/Jet/Weiss/LMS or any of the other chinese rebranded options. Tough market.

 

[wrmiller]

I owned the SB1001 lathe and the stupidest thing I ever did was sell it to a friend in need of a lathe. Been trying to buy it back ever since, but he isn't cooperating.

I own a larger lathe now, but that little SB was very accurate and rigid for it's size. Great for making small parts, which I do quite often.

 

[cjtoombs]

I owned the SB1001 lathe and the stupidest thing I ever did was sell it to a friend in need of a lathe. Been trying to buy it back ever since, but he isn't cooperating.

I own a larger lathe now, but that little SB was very accurate and rigid for it's size. Great for making small parts, which I do quite often.

I think the SB1001 illustrates the answer to this thread quite well. I looked at it and thought that it was a very nicely made little lathe with a lot of details that you don't get on a typical Chinese lathe of that size, like good finish and nice handles. I expected that given that attention to detail it would make a very nice hobby lathe. But it was priced way higher than the similar sized competition and didn't have a QCGB (although in that size range, the QCGB on it's competitors wasn't much). And it didn't last long. It seemed like it was on the clearance block not much more than a year after it's introduction and has now been completely discontinued. I expect that most people just getting into this hobby think, hey the swing and between centers specs are the same, why pay more? I think it takes years of experience and exposure to higher quality tools before people will realize that the higher quality tool would have served them better. By then, they are already getting by on the cheap one, and there isn't one available anyway for that very reason. Hope you find another SB1001.

 

[wrmiller]

The same folks that judge everything by swing and between centers would have missed the extra mass in the carriage and the very wide bed. Like I said, very rigid. And very accurate. Made for very good finish cuts in pretty much any material I worked with.

Many people will sometimes chase the lowest price point, sometimes stupidly so. I have had the conversation with my son about why I spend $3k on a computer when he can spend $800. A few years later he is looking for another. Mine are typically good for 6-10 years, depending on what major changes occur during that time frame.

I've had folks tell me I was stupid (in so many words) for spending the money on a Taiwan 1340 lathe. Several have come back asking for recommendations for a new lathe after realizing the one they bought won't live up to their expectations.

Such is life.