Which 3 Jaw Chuck and collet chuck for incoming PM1340GT

[mksj]

No offense on the picture, I thought it was a bit of humor, but then I may not know what it relates too. We all start out at that level and then learn along the way.

To do a basic VFD install for this lathe will run around $600-700 inclusive of the VFD (WJ200-15SF), enclosure, braking resistor, power switch and wiring. Time to build out the VFD enclosure and program the VFD, figure 6-8 hours for the basics. It is straight forward wiring, but if one is not familiar with electrical wiring then takes longer and definitely have an electrician check everything before powering it up. It takes time to go through everything and get a grasp on what to do, after you have done one it gets much quicker. You could also look for a used RPC, but I feel the VFD is a better option for the 1340GT due to the rapid controlled braking. Most of what you need is detailed in the enclosure document at the end of the thread for the 1340GT basic install.

As far as chucks, they all have their strength and drawbacks. A 6J scroll is often the last chuck one gets, it has the least amount of holding power and also if your stock is not perfectly round, the jaw pressure will be uneven. I guess one could always remove three of the Jaws. They are also a bit more challenging when it come to cleaning out the swarf. I would agree with David Best, and a few others that the bigger 8" scroll type chuck is a bit cumbersome and heavy. I probably would go with a 6.3" (160mm) 3J scroll and their D1-4 direct mount 8" 4J independent which will give you a lot of flexibility and cost wise is about the same as if you purchased a single 6J 8". But it is all a matter of preference. I do use an 8" Bison combination chuck which is a scroll+independent and at 85+ lbs is a bit of a beast, I have 6 chucks.

I initially tried an ER-40 holder in my chuck, but never worked that well so I made my own ER40 Set-True chuck (this was before the Shar's ER40 Zero-Set was available). When I am using collets, often my hands are very near or almost touching the chuck, I wouldn't want to have my hands anywhere near a collet holder in a jawed chuck, much safer a dedicated collet chuck which is smooth. The Shar's ER40 Zero-Set is relatively inexpensive, about $250 with a back plate. As I indicated QMT/PM was suppose to be stocking a similar 5C Set-True type for around the same price, so either one would be a good option for round stock under 1".

Bison 5C chuck.

 

[davidpbest]

mksj,

I appreciate your thorough response! I have read that other thread about surface finish issues. I get what your saying about getting a 3ph machine and adding a VFD. I did not realize that I could use single phase with the VFD/3ph lathe though. It certainly sounds like it is the best option. The problem I'm running into is that I know even less about electricity than I do lathes! Haha. I'm apprehensive about doing it, assuming I could switch out my order for a 3ph machine with PM, because I would be at the mercy of my electrician as to what he would charge to do this. And I'd have to buy a VFD from someone as you mention.

Can you advise the cost of buying a "VFD kit" so to speak? Or whatever extra parts I would need to re-wire the stock parts? I will contact my electrician and discuss this with him and see what he says.

Thank you again.

You don't want an electrician. You want Mark Jacobs to build you a VFD control system. DM Mark - super guy - he is mksj BTW.

 

[davidpbest]

I agree with Mark - putting an ER40 collet chuck into a 3J scroll chuck is asking for an accident. It can compound TIR issues as well. Mark's comments about ER versus 5C are all valid, but for various reasons I standardized on ER40 and have ER40 Set-True collet chuck for the lathe (which I also made), ER40 R-8 for the mill spindle and rotary table, ER40 MT3 collet chuck for the lathe tailstock, and of course the ER40 square and hexagon collet blocks. You can cover the entire 0-1" range with 26 metric ER40 collets, but it takes 64 of the 5C collets to cover the same range. We all have our preferences. LOL The Bison 5C would be the way to go IMO if you wanted 5C collets.

 

[Rifleman1384]

Serpico, Welcome, I have been reading and keeping up with this thread since I am on the same road as you just a turn or two and a straight away ahead of you.

First of all you are in the right place for your new hobby (addiction), the folks here are VERY helpful and willing to share what has worked for them and this in it self will save you headaches and $$ overtime but their knowledge will also cost you $$ because you will get to where you want to be in the end faster. Read, read, read the threads here and ask lots of questions, that is what I have been doing.

PM can get you the VFD if that is the route you want (need ,should) go. My VFD will ship with the machine. My only prior experience with one was installing one on my Bridgeport Mill, intimating at first YES. It's not that complicated really. The system that most here use and what I am in process of getting and will use is the one designed by Mark (mksj) here. One of my concerns was would it effect the warranty on my new still in route machine to convert the system over. Per Matt at PM absolutely will not effect the warranty they provide. Please read the threads about the system and the additional flexibility it will give you, I too have much to learn but the additional control and safety will be helpful in my journey and I felt using this system was where I wanted to be in the end anyway.

On the chucks. Per Matt at PM they have a "High Precision 5-C Adjustable Collet Chuck" I have one included in my order, it will come with the correct D backing plate for my machine. If you call PM to inquire John (sales) may not know much about it. When I called to check status of everything on my order and get newest (third) arrival date he stated that Matt was handling them direct. When I ordered I did speak with Matt since I had a few specific questions before I took the plunge and added it. I did ask about an upgraded chuck and was told nothing above what they have listed was available but now I have seen they seem to be able to provide some of the popular brands you are hearing about. If you get the PM 3 and or 4 jaw just make sure the thru hole in the chuck will not take away from the spindle bore that you have. Their 4 jaw chuck thru hole is slightly smaller than the spindle bore of the machine I have ordered, while their 3 jaw chuck is supposed to be fine in that regard. I looked a LOT and even started a thread here asking about chucks similar to this one and received a lot of very good advise. I decided and went with a Bison 4 Jaw, found it on EBAY listed as NIB. It came from Canada and was expensive but even with the shipping and cost of the chuck I got a forged 4 Jaw for just under half price and it is butter smooth.

Many here will tell you tooling will cost as much as your machine, some will be under and some will be over that, in the end I think I that is a very reasonable figure. Go slow do your research (that's been half the fun for me) tooling can be bought over time once you have some basics to get started. Lots of folks seem happy with less expensive items and some seem to try and buy the best, I have been trying to purchase quality tooling as I am going along, it spreads out the cost (pain) somewhat. I hope this helps a little.
Steve

 

[Kiwi Canuck]

Welcome to the HM forum, you have been given some great advice here regarding chucks and also the 3 phase motor option and installation of a VFD.

I strongly recommend you consider the VFD installation, and it's probably not too late to make a change in your order to a 3phase motor.

Before I did mine, I did have some wiring knowledge so it was not too difficult to make the decision to go that route, you just need common sense and someone familiar with machine and control wiring to review your work before powering the system up.

I used my 16 year old son to program the VFD based on Mark Jacobs detailed programming guide and he was also able to find an error in my install that caused the system to not run, so it just requires the desire and time to get it done.

The functionality of the lathe with the variable speed and the fast braking is amazing, worth the effort for sure.

Just because someone is an electrician does not qualify them for this work, many have never worked on motor controls, let alone VFD's but they can be a good resource for installing the wiring up to the VFD enclosure.

You could always ask Mark Jacobs if he's willing to build the system for you, he has built a few systems for others here.

BTW here is a link to my journey into these machines, delivery of the machines start on page 10 and the VFD install starts page 12

New Member From Langley Bc Ready To Start Lathe & Mill Shopping

I found this forum by following Mike from ZMotorsports on another forum. He has a very nice review of both of his PM machines and I have been looking to get into outfitting my shop/garage with a few machines, so here I am. I am a bit overwhelmed with all the options available but I believe I...

www.hobby-machinist.com

 

[davidpbest]

Just because someone is an electrician does not qualify them for this work, many have never worked on motor controls, let alone VFD's but they can be a good resource for installing the wiring up to the VFD enclosure.

Well said. Totally concur.

 

[Dan_S]

I don't know why it is, but generally when machines come with chucks the three jaw is usually a size or two smaller than the Four jaw.

 

[Serpico1985]

Ok. Ok. I'm sold. I'm going to call PM tomorrow and see about switching my order to a 3 phase. It may take longer to get it running vs the single phase but with so many of y'all saying its the way to go I'd be crazy not to.

I'll worry about chucks later, this will eat up all the chuck money I assume. But I have taken your suggestions to heart.

I'm still unclear on a few things but at this point they are just details. Seems like it would be awesome if PM would offer this from the factory, a 3 phase set up with VFD. I never got the price list for the chucks. When I call tomorrow I'll make sure to get that info and post it.

Thanks, and I'm sure I'll be bothering y'all some more.

 

[wrmiller]

I purchased the 8" Gator 6 jaw set true chuck for my PM1340 and I'm very satisfied with the chuck.

http://gatorchucksonline.com/Scroll...pb-series-6-jaw-153-semi-steel/1-153-0800.htm
This chuck gets used for 99% of my work.

Instead of buying a separate collet chuck I went with an ER32 collet holder that I chuck up in the 6 jaw.
https://www.maritool.com/Tool-Holde...STRAIGHT-SHANK-COLLET-CHUCK/product_info.html
This gives me the equivalent of a set true collet chuck for a fraction of the cost plus no need to switch out chucks. Some will say this is a less rigid setup and that is true but considering the small size stock you put into a collet it doesn't matter much. If you are doing a lot of repetitive small part work in a collet this setup will be slow compared to a true collet chuck but I'm a hobbiest so not really a problem for me.

I also run a 8" (actually 8 1/4") 3-jaw on my 1340GT. A 8" 4-jaw and 5" collet chuck are also occasionally used when needed, but the 3-jaw spends the most time on the lathe.

 

[Larry$]

When I ordered my 1440 from PM I ordered their collet chuck at the same time. Turned out to be a very nice chuck. It is the "Set-true" type. I got their set of 5C collets (by 32s) at the same time. I've checked them by setting up with gage pins and the runout has been minimal. If you are doing something that has to be as close to dead on as possible you can use the adjusting screws much like a 4 jaw. If you change collets a lot the lever type would be the ticket. Not sure how they work with long stock held in the bore. Only once was I doing something that I needed to change collets a lot. I made a tool for my battery driver that worked OK. I've used my collet chuck far more than I thought I would. I have a 3/4" square and several smaller ones by 64ths and the internal stop. Unlike jaw chucks they don't damage the work.