Where to start? Thinking of converting my mills and lathes to CNC.

GoMopar440

GoMopar440

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I've been giving some serious thought to converting my mills and lathes over to CNC. I've had 16 years of machinist training and experience in the Navy, but none of it was on CNC machines. I never knew how to use any 3D drawing programs before, but now I'm in college learning AutoCAD in the Drafting Tech program. The gunsmith school I attended after retiring in is now offering CNC training to current and previously graduated students. I'm thinking of taking that class next summer since it's only a month long and would help me piece together all the training I've gotten into something useable. However if I don't use the knowledge, I know it will just go to waste. So on those lines. I'm getting together a plan to convert my machines over to CNC.

There's four machines I have that I'd like to convert over:
1) HF mini mill #44991 (Seig X2 clone)
The X2 clone has had the head counterweight system removed since it always got bound up and wouldn't let me get the full Z axis travel. The X and Y lead screws and dials have been replaced with the "True Inch" kit from Micro Mark. that kit makes each dial revolution = .050 instead of the ridiculous original .0625 per revolution setup. Everything else is stock on it right now.
2) Micro Mark 7x14 mini lathe #82710 (Seig)
The mini lathe has been lapped in, and the rocker tool post was replaced with an A2Z QCTP kit. Everything else on it is stock.
3) Bridgeport Series 1 "J" Head Mill (w/Mitouyo 2 axis DRO)
The Bridgeport will be here tomorrow, so I don't have a lot of first hand details on it yet. It's in good shape and already has a Mintouyo 2 axis DRO installed. I'll just need to level the machine and bolt it down before I can start to make some test parts on it.
4) Atlas 10x54 lathe w/QCGB
The Atlas lathe is completely stock and currently undergoing a (slow) restoration/refurb.

I'd like to convert the two mini machines first since they are both currently fully operational and have already been tuned up a bit. They should be the cheapest to convert as well from what I've seen of of the conversion kits out there for them. The Bridgeport would be next and the Atlas last (after I get it fixed).

As far as computers go, I have a fairly new laptop with AutoCAD 2013 loaded onto it. It's the free educational version, but other than the "Educational version, Not for commercial use." watermark it puts on the drawings, it's exactly the same as the full blown retail version of the program. I know I'll also need some kind of CAM software to convert the drawings to machine tool paths. I've never used any CAM software before though so which one I'll need is still a mystery to me at this point.

Beyond that, I'm not too sure what questions to ask or what parts or specs to look for in a conversion kit. Anyone care to give me a crash course to the basics of getting setup in CNC?
 
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Take a look at Jumps4's thread "rung fu clone RF-45 ZX45 cnc conversion". He is tracking his conversion of an ZX45 square column bill (he's basically done). He did steppers and used Mach3 for the controller.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/8187-rung-fu-clone-RF-45-ZX45-cnc-conversion

Also, check out

hossmachine.info

Hoss has taken to X2 beyond the limits of reason. He has extended the range, and added an automatic tool changer, as well as countless other enhancements.

There are also a lot of other resources on the web for converting the X2, as it is a very common machine, and lot's of people convert them. You can even buy partial kits.

The main things you are going to need are

1) Motors (steppers or servos). 3 Of these, one for each axis. Steppers are slightly cheaper, and have better low end torque. Servos are a bit more, and have a more consistent torque across their whole rpm range. Most people use steppers, and they work just fine.
2) Drivers (one for each motor). Lots of people use the drivers from Gecko. I have the servo version of their drivers (the g320x)
3) A breakout board. These are about $20, and convert the pins of your stepper motor into terminal blocks so you can wire them to your drivers and switches.
4) Various wiring
5) Power Supply. You gotta run those motors somehow. For steppers, lots of people use old computer power supplies, as they are plentiful, cheap, and high output.
6) A computer to control the thing. It doesn't have to be new. If you don't have one hanging around you could get one surplus. If you have a laptop, you could use that, but you will need a usb interface to it, as your laptop probably doesn't have a parallel port. You can get something called a "Smoothsteper" if you are going to run Mach3. This is a USB breakout board. Really, it's a little more than a breakout board, but you can read up on that ;)
7) Controller software. Most people I have seen use either Mach3, or LinuxCNC (used to be EMC2). LinuxCNC is free, and is what I use, but will not work with USB interfaces (you need a real parallel port). Mach3 is about $150 as I recall. Lots of people use it, and it is supposedly very flexible, and easy to use. I don't personally have any experience with it.

That's about it for the mill. I would probably start with the mill as more people convert mills, and you will be able to find more (knowledgeable) help in the endeavor. I spent a lot of time researching things for my conversion (a import knee mill). In the end it was really straightforward. Ultimately a conversion ends up as a bunch of motors strapped to the machine; the software does all the hard stuff.
 
here is a step by step with everything you need to do the x2 we just did here a few months back. http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/6680-X2-Mini-Mill-CNC-Conversion mgp in this thread is going into gunsmithing also.
I use emachineshop for drawing and d2nc for cam both are really easy and fast. i draw and make most parts right at my machine in minutes. if your not careful you can really over think this and way overtrain for something your wanting to do as a hobby. in a lot of cases instead of complete drawings i just draw the procedure i want the machine to do, then center the material at the right location and angle for the cut i need and hit go. not trying to cut out the entire part in one massive program. for one off parts that is the fastest way i'm not mass producing parts.
my son blew up his mini bike motor the rockerarm bracket was a casting and could not take the rpm. I sat down with a caliper and a flat surface and measured out everything making the drawings needed in one evening and he was riding it the next night. by breaking it down into steps instead of complete parts it becomes a lot easier.
steve

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Going to school full time and some truck problems have been keeping these projects on the back burner. I'm still looking to start gathering parts over the winter break though.

From what I've been reading here and elsewhere, everything will need to be beefed up to handle the Bridgeport size and weight compared to the smaller X2 clone. As a result the cost of parts needed for the Bridgeport are going to be quite a bit more than I had hoped. So for now, I'll just look at converting the X2 and the mini lathe for now.

I found a couple of ebay links to parts that I was thinking of using.
For the motors one of these kits:
Nema 34: http://www.ebay.com/itm/170550595629?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Nema 23: http://www.ebay.com/itm/170631971210?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
I'm still not sure if I will need the stronger Nema 34 motors on the small mill I have or not. If I can use the Nema 23 motors it will be about $170 cheaper than the 34's.
For the controllers I haven't been able to fine a USB controlled one I liked so I was thinking of this kit:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390492206049?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
I doubt I'll ever use the 5th axis on the X2, but I can keep the extra controller as a spare or just use it on the mini lathe. I already have a few rotary tables I can convert over for the 4th axis so it's not too far fetched to see it being added on in the near future.

Any inputs (good or bad, I can take it) on the kits listed above would be appreciated. I just ask if you say I shouldn't get one of these kits for any reason, please offer an alternative and why it's better. I seem to learn best when I can understand the way things work.
 
hello
here is my thoughts...
the nema 23 motors and controlers you found on ebay are the perfect size and match for an x2 but throw away the breakout board it comes with, it is junk way to slow. just buy a cheap no frills breakout board and use a uc100 usb controller. see my 9x20 cnc lathe thread. the x2 can be run with the original screws and the loss is in speed not accuracy, if its your first cnc i'd go that way first. i would concider buying a 4 motor setup like the one you found though. if your going to want 4th axis it is cheaper to buy it all at once than another motor and controller later. you dont need the last set of controlers you showed the first set has everything in it, the breakout board is just no good and a replacement is about $8. the uc100 is $139 from cnc4pc.com. you can do without limit switches if the motors run to the end of travel they dont hurt anything, they just buzz and you lost position and rezero. everything i suggested would make a nice mill that would work well.
steve
 
Just got back from checking out the HossCNC.info site mentioned in a post above. I must have missed it when it was originally posted before. Lots of good info there, but way more complicated than I want to get with my X2.

For the screws, I'd really like to use ballscrews and ballnuts to allow it to be able to take advantage of the travel speeds you can get out of a CNC machine.

On the break out boards, the ones I've seen have given me mixed signals on what they need or are capable of. Some say they can only be used with Windows XP or 32 bit systems. I'd like to find something that is compatable with at least 64 bit version of Windows 7, and uses USB cables for communication between the PC and the break out board. Of course that also means I'll have to use CAD and CAM software that also meets those criteria as well. I have free full (student) versions of most of the Autodesk programs (AutoCAD 2013/Inventor/Revit/etc...) through my school since I'm taking Drafting Tech as my major in college. That's one of the biggest reasons I'm trying to find parts that will work with modern PC specs.

In the long run I'd like to set this up with the extras installed like limit switches and an E-stop switch. I'm used to working on full size shop equipment with those capabilities built in, so it just makes sense to me to put them on the X2. I realize that it adds a little extra cost and setup to add it initially, but I feel it's worth it to me.

I also just checked out the CNC4PC website you mentioned and found some kits that could work. Like this one: http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=75_83&products_id=429 It looks like it is a good quality kit, but I need to research more still to understand everything I'm looking at in the kit.

For the 4th axis, this is the rotary table I already have that I'm considering using. http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2183&category=1963256910 I also have a much smaller rotary table from HF, but it doesn't have a tailstock with it and I don't have any idea where I'd put the stepper for it. A standard Nema 23 motor would dwarf it.
 
your going to have problems with windows 7 and the cost of software new enough to work will kill you. the 64 bit is not going to do anything since it is the usb speed we are using not the processor speed once you go usb. higher processor speed is needed if windows and the clock is doing the pulsing through a parallel port. with a usb board the pulsing is done by the processor on the board and the pc just sends the commands not the pulses. my zx45 with the uc100 usb controler (100,000kh) will do rapids of 200ipm but i have it set down to 80max the increase in speed only helps you in rapids cutting speeds are much lower determined by the material and cutter your using. i have two windows 7 pcs now but they are not running machines the software i use does not like win7 and is too buggy. you also dont need 64bit software for cad an cam it does not control the speed of the mill only the speed you process or convert your drawings and g-code. long story short once you go usb the pc can be a dog it is not running the machine the usb controler is doing the work with it's own processor.
I hope that helps you
steve
 
Well I have been to the Airsoft website, I read that Windows 7 32 bit will work. Just not the 64 bit. I have a tower that is Windows 7, but I bought that machine back about 2 years or so ago.. I am thinking that it is a 32 bit machine. Right now I am kicking myself in the ass, due to the fact that I just went through a fall cleaning, trying to make room here in the apartment, there is just no where to store much. Well I just got rid of two computer towers, but that is no prob. I can easy get another one, the scrap house has them all the time.

But I had a CD disc with XP Pro on it and I am afraid that I may have gotten rid of it, by mistake. Right now I can not find it, but then a lot of times I put things places and then forget where I put it.

Still though, I am sick that now I wish that I had not done the fall cleaning so much.
 
Steve,

I am going to bookmark that page. But right before going over to that fellows place that I met at the scrap yard, I found the CD for the XP Pro, I guess I am going to have to learn how to do a duel OS set up.

Doc
 
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