Where do I start

B

bubbas55

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Know very little about machining but have a long standing interest. Reading a lot, watching YouTube vids,studying machines. Lots of questions.....
should I start off with an inexpensive mini or???
the smithy granite looks great but too much money
bolton looks good, price is right but are they as good as they look.
Are the combo machines good or should I go for separate lathe, mill...
thanks all
ron
 
I would think that you need to first identify what is you want to use the machines for. That will define the machine specifications.
 
While Im a believer in the Smithy brand for a small home machine setup......

The right question in response was asked already....
What do you want to do with your new found machining interest?

Creating parts for an RC hobby from aluminum, delrin and the like has much different needs then the new user that wants to make pins and bushings for his farm equipment.

Might want to tell us what space you have available.. Basement? back room in house? barn? garage workshop and what kind of power you have available? willing to put in?
120V only? 240V single phase? Three phase power?

bubbas55 said:
Know very little about machining but have a long standing interest. Reading a lot, watching YouTube vids,studying machines. Lots of questions.....
should I start off with an inexpensive mini or???
the smithy granite looks great but too much money
bolton looks good, price is right but are they as good as they look.
Are the combo machines good or should I go for separate lathe, mill...
thanks all
ron
Click to expand...
 
I vote start off with the inexpensive mini. If you then like it and get hooked you can sell it and get into a larger machine.
If the bug doesn't catch you and it just sits idle you can sell it easily and move on.
 
Ron,

Combination machine are a compromise, like combination printers/faxes/copiers. The do everything fairly well, but nothing very well. About the only time I would recommend one is if you don't have the room for separate machines. If you are just starting out, a lathe should be at the top of your list of priorities since all of the basic machining skills can be learned and practiced on the lathe. A used machine will normally get you the most bang for your buck if you have the mechanical skills to make an informed purchase and do any needed repairs. The next best option would be one of the imports. I have no experience with those, so you'll need to scour the forums for reviews on the different models. Whatever you buy, new or used, make sure to get as much tooling with it as possible since tooling bought after the fact can add up to more than the machine itself.

Tom
 
Actually, I would not be so concerned about what you want to do with the machines, but rather other factors instead. First of which is what Kind of space you have to devote to such equipment. Second, how much money do you have to spend on machines? Third, do you have specific interests that might dictate what order you buy machines in? By that I am saying if you do have specific projects in mind that would best be done on a milling machine then obviously that would be the first machine you would want to look for. Fourth, If you have little knowledge or expaerienc ewith any of the machines perhaps you might be better served to look for a night class at the local trade school or college to get some basic hands on experience to guide you in whatever direction your interests take you. As for combo machines, some folks love them, I do not. I would always opt for purpose specific machines such as a lathe and a mill instead of a combo. I believe that quality individual machines will always hold thir value and sell easily if you ever decide you want out. I think combo machines also appeal to a more limited audience of potential buyers. While I never buy any tool or machine to sell, generally when I do buy a machine I try and never pay more for a tool or machine than I think I could someday sell it for if I want o need to.

Take me for example, I never could at any point tell you I have anything specific in mind that I want to make on my machines. I just knew I enjoy making chips, tinkering/repairing and occassionally making some kind of project. I have never had anything but limited space or funds for my interest either. I do not use my machines commercially but only as a hobby and for relaxation. If I just described you then I would say determine everything I mentioned above first such as room for a shop and budget, with the last thing being what you want to do with the machine which would dictate the order in which you would want to aquire machines. If you have absolutely no specific project type or interest in mind but rather a general machining and machine shop interest then I would suggest the best quality lathe you can afford first that will fit into the space you have determined will be your shop. Often as has been my case while I would love a sizeable knee mill such as a Bridgy I have never had the funds to buy such a machine so many others that I enjoy and can afford have come in front of the mill I would love. Following my lathe I added a power hack saw then later a horizontal metal band saw. Later still I added a vertical wood bandsaw that I still plan to convert to cut steel. Along the way other smaller shop equipment such as bench grinders, drill presses, measuring and layout tools, arbor press, machine vises, and a small horizontal bench mill have all been added because they were what I found that I had both the money and the room for. My point being I am still aquiring machines and equipment and continue to hope that somewhere down the line my situation will be such that I can add the big knee mill I have always wanted. Sometimes funding, availability of equipment you want to add and room for the machines you want a really what dictates what I buy and when I buy it.

I hope this in some way helps you along.
 
Hey Ron

Welcome to the forum!

My vote for two used US machines to start.
Reasons:


1- combo machines are good for people who know exactly what that usually need to make, and know they don't mind the limitations. You can do a lot with them, and they are great for some people. But really not cheap.

2- Another issue I would have with combo for you is that the whole machine is blocked if you are in the middle of making a part with the mill OR lathe. Sometimes you can't finish one part on one machine, without using the other (mill or lathe).

3- I agree with Tom on getting a lathe first. You can learn much more simply about cutting, feeds, and cutter bits, and sharpening them. A mill "fly cutter" is pretty much a lathe cutter bit!

4- unless you are pretty cramped for space, no need to cram yourself into a combo.

Do you have anyone who can help you drag machines around? Into a ground level barn or small apartment? I'm exaggerating to understand what size machines make sense for you.


Bernie
 
I vote for walking down to harbor freight or craigslist and buying a 7x12, which is 7" swing (think diameter), by 12" (think length or "between centers". nothing like as good impulse buy.. nothing (sex and beer excluded, of course).

then grab some AL or brass rod and let them chips fly.

why i say this is you will learn a ton just by monkeying with those craptastic machines. once you have the chip part down, you can lap it to make it smoother (or even scrape!) and there is alot you can do with them as long as you are patient. you may also learn that you don;t like it as much as you though, and youre not out much.

Had one that i gave to a friend just to see him get the bug, wish i would have kept it, but eh, better to see him have fun.
 
I'm currently helping my retired brother in law build a small basement shop where he can do some more advanced gunsmithing, Up until now he's worked with basic hand tools. So the machine tool choices are based on what kind of things he wants to do, and make.
Don't underestimate the value of learning to make things by hand. Becoming proficient with simple tools like files, and hacksaws and a bench vice will give you a better understanding of what you can expect your machine tools to do. I'm not saying you need to spend months whittling a 2 inch steel cube into a 1 inch cube just to prove you can, But I'd try and identify some simpler projects you'd like to make that don't require a large investment. The first machine I would buy would be a decent bench grinder, you'll need to learn to sharpen drills which you'll be using on your Next machine... a drill press. And of course it goes without saying that you will need drills and a drill index. They sell ones that combine fractional/number/letter drills all in one, but I'm not a fan. Start with a fractional set then a number set, and time will tell if you need a set of letter drills. You might think the drill press to be redundant if you are eventually getting a mill of some sort, but I don't think so. Many times in my real job I will use a bridgeport to locate, and spot drill a series of holes, and then move to a drill press to finish the job because it's just quicker and easier that way.
You'll also need a few precision measuring tools. First (after a tape measure which I'm sure you already own) would be a 6 inch scale. With some practice you'll find that it's not too hard to work to .010" with a scale, and many times thats as close as you need to be. You can find various markings, but I prefer a "3R" scale. it gives you fractions on one side and decimal on the other. Even though I tend to be a cheapskate on some things I'd recommend you spend real money on a 6" combination square... 2 reasons) a cheap square that isn't, is worthless, and it's not a tool that's easily damaged or broken. The first one you buy should last you the rest of your life. You'll also probably want a 0-1" Micrometer, and 6" dial calipers. I'd go cheap on your first micrometer, look for a used Brown + Sharp or Mittutoyo on craigslist. And avoid the urge to buy "digital" calipers, Actually I'd say start with vernier calipers, but that's just crazy talk. You'll probably wreck your first set of calipers so I wouldn't spend much money there either.
Now I'm finally going to answer your first question, If you buy the combo lathe/mill machine you will always be faced with tearing down the lathe setup in order to mount a vice to what Is a rather small table in order to do any milling. I think that would be the biggest drawback for me. On the plus side, because a lot of people have bought them and found them to be inadequate, you can usually find a used one on craigslist at a reasonable price. So go ahead and get one if you like the idea, just try and not spend any more money than you have to. See if you can find a toolmaker/machinist who lives near you that would help you check out a used machine, to make sure it does all the things it's supposed to. If you live in the St Louis area I'd be happy to spend half a day helping someone just getting started.
Levi
 
thanks for all the great feedback on my questions. as far as tools and space... i have a 30' x 40' shop that i currently use for my metal art work. most of my work is with copper. i have a number of tools to cut, grind and shape but just never took the step to a lathe/mill. i also lately have gotten back into knife making. i recently sold my mc which took up a lot of space so i can fit some fair sized machines in fairly comfortable.. sounds like i need to start with a small lathe and learn on that first.

i have a need for a mill right now but i think what im going to try is a cross slide mill vise on my drill press. i just need one small oval hole in some 3/32" steel.

thanks again... i love to trade/play with ideas.

ron
 
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