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Uses in the shop for Gear Oil?
- Thread starter Jake P
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2020
- Messages
- 1,856
Many of the cnc mills have yellow metal gears in the rotary table....I have never seen an issue and yes I had many of them apart for many different issues.
One manufacture you had to remove the table in order to replace a proximity switch!
For those who don't know what that can be like, think of it as having to tear down your engine to replace a spark plug.
I used to go to a lubricant distributor that actually blended the oils to the engineering specifications!
I bought alot of oil from him, in the neighbor hood of 6 drums every 10 days. I don't remember for sure but almost all of the oils came from 2 or 3 stock containers. They would then blend in the recipe, the additive package.
I was used to going to the big Mobil facility in Cleveland, I thought there were hundreds of different oils back then!
One manufacture you had to remove the table in order to replace a proximity switch!
For those who don't know what that can be like, think of it as having to tear down your engine to replace a spark plug.
I used to go to a lubricant distributor that actually blended the oils to the engineering specifications!
I bought alot of oil from him, in the neighbor hood of 6 drums every 10 days. I don't remember for sure but almost all of the oils came from 2 or 3 stock containers. They would then blend in the recipe, the additive package.
I was used to going to the big Mobil facility in Cleveland, I thought there were hundreds of different oils back then!
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2014
- Messages
- 5,056
I guess it is unclear as to how EP additives work, how they damage yellow metals and the type used/oils that contain them. There are also other situations where they are detrimental to regular gears in slow speed situations. EP additives are often used in automotive gear oils, and in machine gearboxes only when specified by the manufacturer. If ones follows the initial point of this thread, Lucas oils specifically indicated that their synthetic gear oil mentioned was not safe for yellow metals. The subsequent discussion was what oils would be appropriate to use and the viscosity ratings. There is very good documentation as to the damage EP additives (primarily sulfur based) can do in incompatible situations/conditions, and if they are activated or inactive under the operating conditions of the machine. The bottom line is they would not be used or recommend in manual lathes or mills, and should only be used if indicated by the manufacturer.
www.machinerylubrication.com
I am well aware of ingenious engineering by automakers, I had a VW W8 Passat that I was informed that to replace the starter, the engine needed to be removed which would cost $7000. It was a lemon from the get go and VW would not honor the warranty w/o legal wrangling, I was more than happy to have gotten rid of it.
Some bedtime reading if you really want to get into the details...
Limitations of Extreme Pressure Additives
Chlorine, potassium-borate and sulfur-phosphorus extreme pressure (EP) additives are primarily used for industrial gear lubricants. These additives are temperature-activated and react with metal...
www.machinerylubrication.com
I am well aware of ingenious engineering by automakers, I had a VW W8 Passat that I was informed that to replace the starter, the engine needed to be removed which would cost $7000. It was a lemon from the get go and VW would not honor the warranty w/o legal wrangling, I was more than happy to have gotten rid of it.
Some bedtime reading if you really want to get into the details...
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2021
- Messages
- 357
Looking at the third attachment ref. DTE it appears that it may very well be better to use DTE light vs. DTE 24 in the headstock of a lathe.
Using DTE 24 over light assumes that the recommendation (whomever it comes form) is properly informed.
And it would seem that according to the argument given (assuming I'm reading it correctly) one can really only assume the recommendation is indeed based on proper knowledge.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2014
- Messages
- 5,056
I threw that one in there because there are many opinions on the subject of what is the "best" oil, and in the case of the 10EE that was his opinion. The DTE named series appears more applicable to high speed applications such as turbines. The DTE numbered series includes systems containing gears and bearings. They both pass the anti-wear and yellow metal tests, they both have anti-foaming with the numbered series having less foaming. They both have anti-rust and the ability to emulsify the water and still maintain lubricity. The DTE named series may last longer in extreme conditions and/or high speed applications like turbines? Hydraulic oils need a different set of properties and must hold up to very high pressures and shear forces encountered in the pumps/hydraulics, along with compatibility with a wide range of materials with long service intervals.
Manufactures make oils for specific applications, and there are variations in the additive packs. Most manufactures for manual lathes, use ISO hydraulic and gear oil pretty interchangeably some will specify a specific brand/type or its equivalent. Mills it can be different oil nomenclatures ISO/SAE Gear Oil and also varies by when the recommendations were made, many of the older recommended oils are no longer available. I have a number of cross reference charts on comparable oil products. This is all a hotly discussed topic through the years, but I have not seen any data to say a gear oil is any better than a hydraulic oil in low speed lathes and gear head mills. I change my machine oils every 1-2 years, and on a Taiwanese machine it usually comes out crystal clear. Chinese mainland lathes and mills is a different story.
www.mobil.com
www.mobil.com
Mobil DTE numbered series oil applications Applications
• Hydraulic systems critical to deposit build-up or where sludge and deposits form with conventional products
• Hydraulic systems requiring a high load-carrying capability and anti-wear protection, and when thin oil-film corrosion protection is an asset
• Where small amounts of water are unavoidable
• Systems containing gears and bearings
• Machines employing a wide range of components using various metallurgy
The Mobil DTE Oil Named Series of lubricants are premium performance circulating lubricants designed for applications where long lubricant service life is required. Specific applications include:
• Land-based and marine steam turbine, hydro turbine and some gas turbine circulation systems, including pumps, valves and other ancillary equipment
• Continuous service in plain and roller bearings and parallel shaft gearing
• Turbines with oil supplied by splash, bath, ring oiling or other mechanical means
• Moderate severity hydraulic pumps
• Compressors and vacuum pumps handling air, natural gas, and inert gases, and with discharge temperatures not exceeding 150C
Manufactures make oils for specific applications, and there are variations in the additive packs. Most manufactures for manual lathes, use ISO hydraulic and gear oil pretty interchangeably some will specify a specific brand/type or its equivalent. Mills it can be different oil nomenclatures ISO/SAE Gear Oil and also varies by when the recommendations were made, many of the older recommended oils are no longer available. I have a number of cross reference charts on comparable oil products. This is all a hotly discussed topic through the years, but I have not seen any data to say a gear oil is any better than a hydraulic oil in low speed lathes and gear head mills. I change my machine oils every 1-2 years, and on a Taiwanese machine it usually comes out crystal clear. Chinese mainland lathes and mills is a different story.
Products
Mobil DTE™ 20 Series oils are supreme performance anti-wear hydraulic oils designed to satisfy a wide range of hydraulic equipment requirements
www.mobil.com
Products
The Mobil DTE™ Oil Named Series of lubricants are premium performance circulating lubricants designed for applications including steam and hydro turbine sets and other systems where long lubricant service life is required.
www.mobil.com
Mobil DTE numbered series oil applications Applications
• Hydraulic systems critical to deposit build-up or where sludge and deposits form with conventional products
• Hydraulic systems requiring a high load-carrying capability and anti-wear protection, and when thin oil-film corrosion protection is an asset
• Where small amounts of water are unavoidable
• Systems containing gears and bearings
• Machines employing a wide range of components using various metallurgy
The Mobil DTE Oil Named Series of lubricants are premium performance circulating lubricants designed for applications where long lubricant service life is required. Specific applications include:
• Land-based and marine steam turbine, hydro turbine and some gas turbine circulation systems, including pumps, valves and other ancillary equipment
• Continuous service in plain and roller bearings and parallel shaft gearing
• Turbines with oil supplied by splash, bath, ring oiling or other mechanical means
• Moderate severity hydraulic pumps
• Compressors and vacuum pumps handling air, natural gas, and inert gases, and with discharge temperatures not exceeding 150C
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2021
- Messages
- 357
Mark,I threw that one in there because there are many opinions on the subject of what is the "best" oil, and in the case of the 10EE that was his opinion. The DTE named series appears more applicable to high speed applications such as turbines. The DTE numbered series includes systems containing gears and bearings. They both pass the anti-wear and yellow metal tests, they both have anti-foaming with the numbered series having less foaming. They both have anti-rust and the ability to emulsify the water and still maintain lubricity. The DTE named series may last longer in extreme conditions and/or high speed applications like turbines? Hydraulic oils need a different set of properties and must hold up to very high pressures and shear forces encountered in the pumps/hydraulics, along with compatibility with a wide range of materials with long service intervals.
Manufactures make oils for specific applications, and there are variations in the additive packs. Most manufactures for manual lathes, use ISO hydraulic and gear oil pretty interchangeably some will specify a specific brand/type or its equivalent. Mills it can be different oil nomenclatures ISO/SAE Gear Oil and also varies by when the recommendations were made, many of the older recommended oils are no longer available. I have a number of cross reference charts on comparable oil products. This is all a hotly discussed topic through the years, but I have not seen any data to say a gear oil is any better than a hydraulic oil in low speed lathes and gear head mills. I change my machine oils every 1-2 years, and on a Taiwanese machine it usually comes out crystal clear. Chinese mainland lathes and mills is a different story.
Products
Mobil DTE™ 20 Series oils are supreme performance anti-wear hydraulic oils designed to satisfy a wide range of hydraulic equipment requirementsProducts
The Mobil DTE™ Oil Named Series of lubricants are premium performance circulating lubricants designed for applications including steam and hydro turbine sets and other systems where long lubricant service life is required.
Mobil DTE numbered series oil applications Applications
• Hydraulic systems critical to deposit build-up or where sludge and deposits form with conventional products
• Hydraulic systems requiring a high load-carrying capability and anti-wear protection, and when thin oil-film corrosion protection is an asset
• Where small amounts of water are unavoidable
• Systems containing gears and bearings
• Machines employing a wide range of components using various metallurgy
The Mobil DTE Oil Named Series of lubricants are premium performance circulating lubricants designed for applications where long lubricant service life is required. Specific applications include:
• Land-based and marine steam turbine, hydro turbine and some gas turbine circulation systems, including pumps, valves and other ancillary equipment
• Continuous service in plain and roller bearings and parallel shaft gearing
• Turbines with oil supplied by splash, bath, ring oiling or other mechanical means
• Moderate severity hydraulic pumps
• Compressors and vacuum pumps handling air, natural gas, and inert gases, and with discharge temperatures not exceeding 150C
Did you ever here the one about the little boy that goes to his mother and asks a question?
She says "Son, why don't you ask your father?" And the boy says "Well mom, because I just didn't want to know THAT much about it!"
Seriously though, I am constantly impressed with the quantity and quality of the information that flows on this forum and especially from a select group of you. Thank you, beyond what mere words can convey!
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