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Tramming Tool Idea From Mr Pete
- Thread starter Chewy
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2017
- Messages
- 1,525
I made something similar, but the "down bar" fits the ½" collet I have in the mill 90% of the time.
Mine happens to have a span of 20"± instead of the 12" shown.
Mine happens to have a span of 20"± instead of the 12" shown.
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2014
- Messages
- 2,845
Completely agree. The main issue with dual indicators is zeroing them. To make that easier to do, I mounted each indicator in a bearing, basically like Mr. Pete did, but with a threaded bushing in the id of the bearing and a threaded sleeve on the indicator stem so that you could just rotate the indicator at will without changing depth, but by holding the indicator and rotating the bushing relative to the indicator, the indicator moves up and down depending on the thread pitch...so it's easy to adjust by fractions of thousandths. So chuck up the tramming tool (I put it on a Kwik Switch holder so this takes seconds), bring one indicator to zero with the quill or table, then rotate the bushing on the other indicator to show zero. Swing the bar around 180 degrees, and tram the tilt and nod until both indicators are reading the same. Bingo. This makes it very easy to know which way to turn the adjusting worms since you are just looking for the same reading on each indicator, whatever it may be.
Edit: I haven't learned how to patch in other threads, but this link should work.
An improvement to the improved mill tramming devices
You know the dual dial indicators on a bar that you use to tram a mill, compared to sweeping a single indicator? It got a little tedious with a single indicator, lots of move the head, check, no, wrong way, try again, rotate indicator, what was that last reading? Was it plus .002 or minus...
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Last edited:
Completely agree. The main issue with dual indicators is zeroing them. To make that easier to do, I mounted each indicator in a bearing, basically like Mr. Pete did, but with a threaded bushing in the id of the bearing and a threaded sleeve on the indicator stem so that you could just rotate the indicator at will without changing depth, but by holding the indicator and rotating the bushing relative to the indicator, the indicator moves up and down depending on the thread pitch...so it's easy to adjust by fractions of thousandths. So chuck up the tramming tool (I put it on a Kwik Switch holder so this takes seconds), bring one indicator to zero with the quill or table, then rotate the bushing on the other indicator to show zero. Swing the bar around 180 degrees, and tram the tilt and nod until both indicators are reading the same. Bingo. This makes it very easy to know which way to turn the adjusting worms since you are just looking for the same reading on each indicator, whatever it may be.
Edit: I haven't learned how to patch in other threads, but this link should work.
An improvement to the improved mill tramming devices
You know the dual dial indicators on a bar that you use to tram a mill, compared to sweeping a single indicator? It got a little tedious with a single indicator, lots of move the head, check, no, wrong way, try again, rotate indicator, what was that last reading? Was it plus .002 or minus...
There is zero reason to move the indicator to zero them together. You simply touch off one on a fixed spot and turn the dial to zero. Then rotate to touch off the same spot with the second indicator and rotate the dial to zero. The over all height of one indicator to the second indicator is irrelevant.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2016
- Messages
- 12,869
LMAO ! No-one thought of this before ? This is over 50+ years old technology taught in the first week of any apprenticeship .
My guess is he'll do a Youtube video on how to tram a bore next . 
I'm sorry! Perhaps you know something that I was unaware of. I have read a lot of training books and watched a lot of videos. My collection of books and manuals dates back over 100 years. At no time have I ever run across putting two collars on a dial indicator so you can spin it. There are a whole lot of You Tube videos showing how to color one side of the dial so you can easily read it in a mirror.
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2013
- Messages
- 2,534
After watching Mr. Pete's video, I had to make one too. It took about two hours to put together out of
some square 2024T3, a piece of half inch cold rolled rod and a rusty old chunk of hex material.
The indicator is plenty good for this application and I was surprised to see that the mill needed a
little bit of adjustment. I used a pair of very fine steel washers and honed the ends of the hex pieces
for a nice fit. The next use for this tool will be to see where I am with the nod. I used 8 inches between
the pins.
I like the fact that one is able to check the accuracy over 16 inches of travel, much better
than what I had been using. Thanks, Chewy for taking the time to post Mr. Pete's video.
some square 2024T3, a piece of half inch cold rolled rod and a rusty old chunk of hex material.
The indicator is plenty good for this application and I was surprised to see that the mill needed a
little bit of adjustment. I used a pair of very fine steel washers and honed the ends of the hex pieces
for a nice fit. The next use for this tool will be to see where I am with the nod. I used 8 inches between
the pins.
I like the fact that one is able to check the accuracy over 16 inches of travel, much better
than what I had been using. Thanks, Chewy for taking the time to post Mr. Pete's video.
To set the record straight, I do not use this method to tramm the mill. I did up onto I saw a Blondihacks method. I used a single dial indicator on a brake rotor. I then went to the two dial indicators on a bar method. Gave me around 8" diameter. All worked decent. The method Quinn used improved the accuracy beyond what I would expect from a hobby mill. Mitch Alsup (above) says he tramms over 20", so I am not alone.
The first way is very simple. Goggle caveman tramming and you can see the pictures and find the site. I used a piece of 1/2" round stock from local big box store. Heated one end at 3" and bent it 90 degrees. Not critical. Drilled and tapped a 1/4" hole in the end and fastened the dial indicator through the lug. The problem being seeing the dial face in the mirror and the diameter of sweep is too small.
After watching Blondihack's video. I made another "caveman" rod. This time I drilled a 1/8" hole in the end and cross drilled and tapped a set screw. Putting a DTI in it, sits parallel to the bed. My vise sits a little to the left of center allowing me just enough room to mount the rotary table when needed. . Center the vise on the quill and then put a 2" X 4" X 6" block on each end. The blocks smoothe out and dips in the bed. Tramm the mill "X" to a couple of tenths difference.
In practice, I put a 3/4" X 1" X 9" precision parallel in a Kurt vise and it reads .0002 across the length. In use, the X axis material being cut typically reads within .0005 all the time. Most of my stuff is 2-8" long. I had a problem in the Y axis with parts reading .002 difference over a couple of inches, sometimes more. Fought with that for 2 years. The bed of this PM mill is just not that flat with dips in in. The vise was shimmed and moved around until it read perfect. I tightened it down pretty good and that was the problem. When putting a piece in the vise, and tightening it, the vise distorted and the piece came out weird.
Solution? Key the vise. Making keys for the vise set the face tramm at .0001 across 4". The vise is now tightened down at around snug, ending the distortion. The vise straddles across the table and minimizes the dips. Currently I cut at .0005 every-which way there is. Plenty accurate for a PM30MV mill. The vise is removed and installed (table is marked so it always goes back in same location) in 1 minute is then spot checked for tramm and it always stays the same.
I am posting this because there are probably other people who are have tolerance and alignment problems and scratching their heads. I am fully aware that there are different solutions to the same problems. This solved mine and now I can mill pretending I am a real You Tube Machinist! I will be using the swiveling indicators on the lathe to minimize parallax more so than the mill.
If this helps someone I will be happy. The Mr Pete video was posted for the swiveling dial indicator. Thank You Mr. Pete and Thank You Quinn!!
Link below:
The first way is very simple. Goggle caveman tramming and you can see the pictures and find the site. I used a piece of 1/2" round stock from local big box store. Heated one end at 3" and bent it 90 degrees. Not critical. Drilled and tapped a 1/4" hole in the end and fastened the dial indicator through the lug. The problem being seeing the dial face in the mirror and the diameter of sweep is too small.
After watching Blondihack's video. I made another "caveman" rod. This time I drilled a 1/8" hole in the end and cross drilled and tapped a set screw. Putting a DTI in it, sits parallel to the bed. My vise sits a little to the left of center allowing me just enough room to mount the rotary table when needed. . Center the vise on the quill and then put a 2" X 4" X 6" block on each end. The blocks smoothe out and dips in the bed. Tramm the mill "X" to a couple of tenths difference.
In practice, I put a 3/4" X 1" X 9" precision parallel in a Kurt vise and it reads .0002 across the length. In use, the X axis material being cut typically reads within .0005 all the time. Most of my stuff is 2-8" long. I had a problem in the Y axis with parts reading .002 difference over a couple of inches, sometimes more. Fought with that for 2 years. The bed of this PM mill is just not that flat with dips in in. The vise was shimmed and moved around until it read perfect. I tightened it down pretty good and that was the problem. When putting a piece in the vise, and tightening it, the vise distorted and the piece came out weird.
Solution? Key the vise. Making keys for the vise set the face tramm at .0001 across 4". The vise is now tightened down at around snug, ending the distortion. The vise straddles across the table and minimizes the dips. Currently I cut at .0005 every-which way there is. Plenty accurate for a PM30MV mill. The vise is removed and installed (table is marked so it always goes back in same location) in 1 minute is then spot checked for tramm and it always stays the same.
I am posting this because there are probably other people who are have tolerance and alignment problems and scratching their heads. I am fully aware that there are different solutions to the same problems. This solved mine and now I can mill pretending I am a real You Tube Machinist! I will be using the swiveling indicators on the lathe to minimize parallax more so than the mill.
If this helps someone I will be happy. The Mr Pete video was posted for the swiveling dial indicator. Thank You Mr. Pete and Thank You Quinn!!
Link below: