Tool Store That Is Big On Made In Usa

A follow up. I ordered the blem PEC double square from Epstein Co. on Tuesday, and it showed up on Friday. It looks good and operates really well, though the PEC logo was completely removed on this one. Once again, I can find no reason this square was sold as a blem. It looks perfect to me. I took it to the shop and tested it on the surface plate with both a granite angle block and a cylinder square. The cylinder square is actually a new wrist pin for a diesel engine that has been lightly lapped and then calibrated by me to show where the square points are. Pics:
SAM_1577.JPG SAM_1578.JPG SAM_1580.JPG SAM_1582.JPG
I set up the square with the hardened and ground steel slide first at one end, then the other, and then turned the head over and repeated them with the same results, a perfect match with no light gaps. Not bad for a tool I paid $17.50 for, plus $4.40 freight from Epstein Co. The part number is 7105-4R. On the PEC site http://www.pectools.com/ ones that are not blems go for $44.65 http://www.pectools.com/squares/doublesquares.html. Starrett wants $84.00 for theirs http://www.starrett.com/metrology/p...n-measuring-tools/squares/Special-Squares/13C and I guess Starrett never made a blem, but then neither did Shars or the other Chinese mfrs. Note also that Starrett products do not specifically say "Made in USA", and only give the company location as Athol, Mass USA. Anyway, I am quite happy with the one I received, and the service and competitive pricing from Epstein Co. This square will be useful for measuring and testing for square in tighter places where standard combination squares and solid squares will not do the same job.

Take a look at the PEC site. They have a lot of nice, quality tools there. And look some more at the Epstein Co, closeouts...
 
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The PEC blemished ones are the Starrett rejected ones...:(
 
Bob Korves said:
A follow up. I ordered the blem PEC double square from Epstein Co. on Tuesday, and it showed up on Friday. It looks good and operates really well, though the PEC logo was completely removed on this one. Once again, I can find no reason this square was sold as a blem. It looks perfect to me. I took it to the shop and tested it on the surface plate with both a granite angle block and a cylinder square. The cylinder square is actually a new wrist pin for a diesel engine that has been lightly lapped and then calibrated by me to show where the square points are. Pics:
View attachment 140957 View attachment 140958 View attachment 140959 View attachment 140960
I set up the square with the hardened and ground steel slide first at one end, then the other, and then turned the head over and repeated them with the same results, a perfect match with no light gaps. Not bad for a tool I paid $17.50 for, plus $4.40 freight from Epstein Co. The part number is 7105-4R. On the PEC site http://www.pectools.com/ ones that are not blems go for $44.65 http://www.pectools.com/squares/doublesquares.html. Starrett wants $84.00 for theirs http://www.starrett.com/metrology/p...n-measuring-tools/squares/Special-Squares/13C and I guess Starrett never made a blem, but then neither did Shars or the other Chinese mfrs. Note also that Starrett products do not specifically say "Made in USA", and only give the company location as Athol, Mass USA. Anyway, I am quite happy with the one I received, and the service and competitive pricing from Epstein Co. This square will be useful for measuring and testing for square in tighter places where standard combination squares and solid squares will not do the same job.

Take a look at the PEC site. They have a lot of nice, quality tools there. And look some more at the Epstein Co, closeouts...
Click to expand...

I'll take a gander ar PEC. It's cool that you took the time to verify accuracy and post, Bob! BTW.....I work with big diesels every day.....I've gotta know....what is that wrist pin out of? I had no idea that bearing races and apparently wrist pins are so accurate.
 
Ironken said:
I'll take a gander ar PEC. It's cool that you took the time to verify accuracy and post, Bob! BTW.....I work with big diesels every day.....I've gotta know....what is that wrist pin out of? I had no idea that bearing races and apparently wrist pins are so accurate.
Click to expand...
I was a parts guy for 36 years, working with heavy equipment, big trucks, and everything else. The wrist pin was a leftover "paperweight" at work, which I was allowed to take home as scrap. The length is about 4" and I do not know what it is for, perhaps a 7.3L or T444E International engine. It is new and unused. The O.D. on wrist pins is golden, extremely accurately made on a cylindrical grinder. The ends, not so much. That matters, because if using it for a cylinder square it needs to be standing dead nuts vertical. But there is a quirk that makes it possible. I carefully lapped one end of the wrist pin lightly until it was dead flat and with no rock, tested with spotting ink on my surface plate and adjusted until it had even bearing over the surface. OK, so now I have some sort of "leaning tower of Pisa," don't know how much lean or where. At this point I dragged out my granite angle block. One virtue of a "leaning cylinder" is that it is square at two opposite lines, which are 90 degrees from the worst leaning lines. So, I tested it with a light behind it against the angle plate, which showed increasing and decreasing light, top, then zero, bottom, and zero again as it was twisted around. I carefully marked the square places so I could use them. Done deal. It also was a parallel test for the granite angle block, which passed! The lean on the pin is very small, so I might try to lap it so the wall is vertical all the way around the pin. Some day. That is a slow and fussy job, but doable...

There were no bearing races involved with this... (?)

I don't care who made something, I always feel like I need to test it for accuracy as best as I can. Some of the highest regarded tools have tested poorly and some everyday things in our lives are quite accurate! A good test is worth a million expert opinions...
 
Epstein's has been a favorite over on the Garage Journal forum for years. Often they include a hand made drawing of some sort in the box with your order. They offer a sale in cooperation with the GJ forum around the 4th of July (note the America theme). Look in the "sticky" section for the 4th of July sale thread and use the "search this forum" box to find other "Epstein" threads.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=4
 
Thanks Ironken, that only took 2 hrs and a hundred dollars. All joking aside that is one of the neatest store websites I've seen in along time.
Thanks scruffy. Alias ron
 
Bob Korves said:
I was a parts guy for 36 years, working with heavy equipment, big trucks, and everything else. The wrist pin was a leftover "paperweight" at work, which I was allowed to take home as scrap. The length is about 4" and I do not know what it is for, perhaps a 7.3L or T444E International engine. It is new and unused. The O.D. on wrist pins is golden, extremely accurately made on a cylindrical grinder. The ends, not so much. That matters, because if using it for a cylinder square it needs to be standing dead nuts vertical. But there is a quirk that makes it possible. I carefully lapped one end of the wrist pin lightly until it was dead flat and with no rock, tested with spotting ink on my surface plate and adjusted until it had even bearing over the surface. OK, so now I have some sort of "leaning tower of Pisa," don't know how much lean or where. At this point I dragged out my granite angle block. One virtue of a "leaning cylinder" is that it is square at two opposite lines, which are 90 degrees from the worst leaning lines. So, I tested it with a light behind it against the angle plate, which showed increasing and decreasing light, top, then zero, bottom, and zero again as it was twisted around. I carefully marked the square places so I could use them. Done deal. It also was a parallel test for the granite angle block, which passed! The lean on the pin is very small, so I might try to lap it so the wall is vertical all the way around the pin. Some day. That is a slow and fussy job, but doable...

There were no bearing races involved with this... (?)

I don't care who made something, I always feel like I need to test it for accuracy as best as I can. Some of the highest regarded tools have tested poorly and some everyday things in our lives are quite accurate! A good test is worth a million expert opinions...
Click to expand...

That wrist pin just looked big in the pic. Maybe the T444e was built that robust throughout thus the good rep.

The bearing race reference was to guys using big outer races tram in machines. I just kinda threw that in there......kinda randomly.

I don't have the skill or equipment to do much verification of the accuracy of my measuring devices. This is where guys like you come in....I kinda cheat and go off your recommendations as to what's good and not so good.
 
Scruffy said:
Thanks Ironken, that only took 2 hrs and a hundred dollars. All joking aside that is one of the neatest store websites I've seen in along time.
Thanks scruffy. Alias ron
Click to expand...

I'm glad you enjoyed the store (even though your wallet is a bit lighter). But hey.......it's money well spent.....BECAUSE TOOLS!
 
Ironken said:
That wrist pin just looked big in the pic. Maybe the T444e was built that robust throughout thus the good rep.

The bearing race reference was to guys using big outer races tram in machines. I just kinda threw that in there......kinda randomly.

I don't have the skill or equipment to do much verification of the accuracy of my measuring devices. This is where guys like you come in....I kinda cheat and go off your recommendations as to what's good and not so good.
Click to expand...
Oh, I see, to stop the slot bumps... Personally, if I want to tram the table, I tram the table, not something added to it to introduce errors. If you set up the indicator so it barely touches the table at full extension, it can go over the t-slots without upsetting or damaging the indicator and you are actually indicating what you want to test. No two indicator tram 'aids' or other gadgets for me. The bearing race will help you to not see the swale or hill in the table.
 
Bob Korves said:
Oh, I see, to stop the slot bumps... Personally, if I want to tram the table, I tram the table, not something added to it to introduce errors. If you set up the indicator so it barely touches the table at full extension, it can go over the t-slots without upsetting or damaging the indicator and you are actually indicating what you want to test. No two indicator tram 'aids' or other gadgets for me. The bearing race will help you to not see the swale or hill in the table.
Click to expand...

I would have to agree Bob. Why introduce unnecessary variables into the task.
 
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