Thoriated vs Lanthanated Tungsten

[kb58]

Probably get more radiation from all the WiFi everyone is around in my opinion. Doing it 10hrs a day is a lot different than a weekend warrior.

Apples and oranges - two completely different types of "radiation."

 

[G-ManBart]

I very quickly noticed that it tolerated dipping much better, keeping a useful point and picking up less metal from the puddle. More time welding, less grinding, longer tungsten life.

Has anyone else noticed this, or do the rest of you just stay out of the pool?

I don't keep welding after I contaminate the tungsten, so I can't comment which works better after a dip. I don't see any real difference in which one is more likely to get contaminated, but there are known differences in how electrodes react with the puddle so it's got to be a chemistry/electrical issue. The puddle is always going to get trace amounts of contamination from the tungsten, and that will even drive what type of tungsten is used for critical applications.

I've compared 2% lanthanated, 2% thoriated and several of the new trimix blends on the same work and the only thing I really notice is that the thoriated won't hold a point quite as long as the other two....not a huge difference, but it's enough that it's obvious. I don't like running any size tungsten near the top end, so that may be a factor as well. I keep 1/16, 3/32 and 1/8" on hand...I probably don't run 3/32 much over 150A regularly.

 

[682bear]

I don't keep welding after I contaminate the tungsten, so I can't comment which works better after a dip. I don't see any real difference in which one is more likely to get contaminated, but there are known differences in how electrodes react with the puddle so it's got to be a chemistry/electrical issue. The puddle is always going to get trace amounts of contamination from the tungsten, and that will even drive what type of tungsten is used for critical applications.

I've compared 2% lanthanated, 2% thoriated and several of the new trimix blends on the same work and the only thing I really notice is that the thoriated won't hold a point quite as long as the other two....not a huge difference, but it's enough that it's obvious. I don't like running any size tungsten near the top end, so that may be a factor as well. I keep 1/16, 3/32 and 1/8" on hand...I probably don't run 3/32 much over 150A regularly.

I've had exactly the opposite experience... I've tried 1.5 and 2% lanthanated and ceriated and, for me, the thoriated holds up better at higher amperages. Less than 125 amps, I can't tell any difference between them.

Do you suppose it may be a difference in brands? IDK...

FWIW, I run an old Miller Dialarc 250 HF transformer... I've never used an inverter machine...

-Bear

 

[G-ManBart]

I've had exactly the opposite experience... I've tried 1.5 and 2% lanthanated and ceriated and, for me, the thoriated holds up better at higher amperages. Less than 125 amps, I can't tell any difference between them.

Do you suppose it may be a difference in brands? IDK...

FWIW, I run an old Miller Dialarc 250 HF transformer... I've never used an inverter machine...

-Bear

1.5% lanthanated and ceriated definitely shouldn't hold up as well as 2% thoriated, so that makes sense.

It very well could be a brand thing as I've read a lot of discussions about that very topic and people finding variations between brands. For the most part I only buy from two or three sources, but mostly I've been buying Midwest Tungsten Service from eBay or Amazon and they've been very consistent.

Jody did a really interesting comparison a while back for anybody who's interested (although only inverters were used as I recall).

Tungsten Electrodes Review

Video shows comparison of several type of tungsten electrodes, thoriated, lanthanated, ceriated, E3, and layzr

www.weldingtipsandtricks.com

 

[MrWhoopee]

I don't keep welding after I contaminate the tungsten, so I can't comment which works better after a dip.

You're a better man than I. If I stopped to regrind every time I dipped I'd never get anything finished.

 

[682bear]

My 2% thoriated is Weldcote Metals, my 2% Lanthanated is HTP, my 2% Ceriated is HTP, I also have Radnor E3, and Radnor pure... I've only used the pure for aluminum... I have not even opened the pack of E3 yet...

These are all 3/32"...

Lately, I've been using 1.5% ceriated... but I've pretty much been TIG brazing mostly, with silicon bronze, doing repairs on cast iron... the 1.5% ceriated does pretty well with brazing.

-Bear

 

[G-ManBart]

You're a better man than I. If I stopped to regrind every time I dipped I'd never get anything finished.

I think we all start out that way...but I'm stubborn and after countless hours of practice I got good enough it doesn't happen too often now. I honestly think learning aluminum was a big part of that...forget trying to keep going once you've dipped

 

[MrWhoopee]

I think we all start out that way...but I'm stubborn and after countless hours of practice I got good enough it doesn't happen too often now. I honestly think learning aluminum was a big part of that...forget trying to keep going once you've dipped

I'm not just starting out. Welding classes in '78, 20+ years in the machining business and having to be the weldor when we didn't have one. I'm just not steady nor coordinated enough. I couldn't play drums either.

 

[G-ManBart]

I'm not just starting out. Welding classes in '78, 20+ years in the machining business and having to be the weldor when we didn't have one. I'm just not steady nor coordinated enough. I couldn't play drums either.

Gotcha. You may have already explored this idea, but gas lenses really let you run far more stickout, which at least makes it a lot easier to see. The newer pyrex (clear) cups...both standard and gas lens style are even better yet because you can not only see through them, but they seem to act like a mirror and push more light right back where you need it most. The pyrex cups won't handle as much heat as the alumina style, but for when you really need to be able to see they're hard to beat.

I started reading about lanthanated versus thoriated from a chemical composition perspective and while both include 2% of weight from alloys other than tungsten the lanthanated are heavier, so the total amount of alloys by weight is greater. That's beyond a crude description of the article, but enough to get the idea. That might change things from an electro-magnetic standpoint and make it so they attract the molten steel more than thoriated. It started hurting my head so I stopped reading...but there could be something to what you're seeing that would explain it perfectly.

 

[pontiac428]

Here you go, G-man. As you can see, lanthanated tungsten has the LOWEST melt point of all the common electrodes BY A WIDE GAP. This is from Chemetal, not from youtube.

When I spoke of my welder being a Dialarc HF (same as @682bear's) and arc starting, it takes a lot more finesse than running even an old Syncrowave or Dynasty. New switched power welders have gobs of electronics to make arc starting (and arc stability) a breeze. New welders are almost like automatic transmissions in comparison. But it's what I've got and I can run it well.