Thinking of Purchasing a Craftsman 12"

[Nogoingback]

It looks like I'm a bit late to the party here, but I'll throw in my two cents.

The problem of finding a decent used lathe at an affordable price is probably one that almost all of us have experienced. As the Atlas/South
Bend/Logan/etc. lathes get older and older it becomes more difficult. If you live in most of the western US it's even more difficult. So,
I'll start by asking a question that, surprisingly, almost never comes up in these discussions: what's your budget? When I bought my
Logan I had the same problems that you're experiencing, and finally bought one that seemed to be in pretty good shape, though I knew
that it needed work. I payed $600.00. This was the down payment on what turned out to be a much more expensive
proposition. Repairs, missing parts, tooling and my decision to add a 3 phase motor/VFD all added up very rapidly, and for the money
I spent I could have bought a new machine and saved myself a lot of time and trouble. I'm happy with my machine now, but that's what it
took.

The majority of old lathes offered for sale will be something like mine: neglected machines that are projects which WILL cost more than
the seductive lowball price that they eventually sell for. If you enjoy the challenges of machine restoration that's great, but if you want
to get started in your hobby and learn to make parts you want a working machine, not a project. There are folks on this forum that will
tell you that if you JUST wait long enough, you'll find a good machine at a great price, and it can happen. But, most of those folks
already have lathes in their shop, so they can afford to be patient.

I would suggest that before you buy a used machine, you look at some machines for sale with the goal of learning how to evaluate a
lathe. It's just like looking for a used car: you have to kick tires for a while before you can recognize a deal when you see it. Buying
the first lathe you see or a lathe that's simply cheap is a recipe for grief.

If you buy a used lathe, try to buy from a guy like me: that already spent the time and money to make it a viable working machine.
Don't plan on buying a machine that isn't in working order.

Seriously think about what the budget is. It is highly unlikely that you will find a tooled up, ready to go lathe in decent shape for
less than $1000.00. Budget at least double that. And keep in mind that if you can afford that, for a little more you can buy
a decent new machine like this: https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1022v-pm-1030v/

 

[Aaron_W]

It looks like I'm a bit late to the party here, but I'll throw in my two cents.

The problem of finding a decent used lathe at an affordable price is probably one that almost all of us have experienced. As the Atlas/South
Bend/Logan/etc. lathes get older and older it becomes more difficult. If you live in most of the western US it's even more difficult. So,
I'll start by asking a question that, surprisingly, almost never comes up in these discussions: what's your budget? When I bought my
Logan I had the same problems that you're experiencing, and finally bought one that seemed to be in pretty good shape, though I knew
that it needed work. I payed $600.00. This was the down payment on what turned out to be a much more expensive
proposition. Repairs, missing parts, tooling and my decision to add a 3 phase motor/VFD all added up very rapidly, and for the money
I spent I could have bought a new machine and saved myself a lot of time and trouble. I'm happy with my machine now, but that's what it
took.

The majority of old lathes offered for sale will be something like mine: neglected machines that are projects which WILL cost more than
the seductive lowball price that they eventually sell for. If you enjoy the challenges of machine restoration that's great, but if you want
to get started in your hobby and learn to make parts you want a working machine, not a project. There are folks on this forum that will
tell you that if you JUST wait long enough, you'll find a good machine at a great price, and it can happen. But, most of those folks
already have lathes in their shop, so they can afford to be patient.

I would suggest that before you buy a used machine, you look at some machines for sale with the goal of learning how to evaluate a
lathe. It's just like looking for a used car: you have to kick tires for a while before you can recognize a deal when you see it. Buying
the first lathe you see or a lathe that's simply cheap is a recipe for grief.

If you buy a used lathe, try to buy from a guy like me: that already spent the time and money to make it a viable working machine.
Don't plan on buying a machine that isn't in working order.

Seriously think about what the budget is. It is highly unlikely that you will find a tooled up, ready to go lathe in decent shape for
less than $1000.00. Budget at least double that. And keep in mind that if you can afford that, for a little more you can buy
a decent new machine like this: https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1022v-pm-1030v/

Just adding to the above, there often seems to be a desire to score a great deal. This us understandable as most of us have a budget, spending more than necessary in one area takes away from another. However on a machine like a lathe, that can last a lifetime (some having been built before their current owners were born), paying $500 or $1000 more than the super deal another found is nothing in the long run."Over paying" by even $1000 on a machine that is satisfying to you, works out to only $100 per year if you get 10 years of use out of it.

Also while it is great if you get a lifetime machine the first time out, a lot of people upgrade as their needs change or their experience grows. Looking for the perfect machine can take years, while an imperfect machine gives you something to start working with right now while you hunt for your dream machine.

 

[ChandlerJPerry]

Well an unexpected update! He finally listed the machine on local classifieds just now. I am going to go look at it tomorrow. What should I look for when it comes to the babbitt bearings? What would be a good way to test wear on them? I don't think I want to try turning a test piece based on the condition of the belt, it's badly frayed. I think I've worked myself into a good position, on eBay I got him to give me an offer of $550, however he does not know that I am the same person as the man on eBay he's been dealing with. He's asking $700 on the classifieds. I feel that if the headstock is in good condition then a fair price would be around $400-$500, any thoughts?

 

[matthewsx]

Well an unexpected update! He finally listed the machine on local classifieds just now. I am going to go look at it tomorrow. What should I look for when it comes to the babbitt bearings? What would be a good way to test wear on them? I don't think I want to try turning a test piece based on the condition of the belt, it's badly frayed. I think I've worked myself into a good position, on eBay I got him to give me an offer of $550, however he does not know that I am the same person as the man on eBay he's been dealing with. He's asking $700 on the classifieds. I feel that if the headstock is in good condition then a fair price would be around $400-$500, any thoughts?

Here's a thread with some info in the bearings hopefully someone else will chime in here with a definitive procedure. If you can feel play at the chuck they are most likely worn out but does that matter to you?

Atlas 10F-28 purchase questions?

I currently have a Harbor Freight 8 x 12 metal lathe, but need something with a longer bed. I found an Atlas number in the gear cover is 10f-28. I haven't looked at it yet, doesn't have a quick changer gear box, has babbit bearing. The bed length I'm assuming is 48 inches, owner says it's...

www.hobby-machinist.com

If I was going into this I would realize that probably the machine is going home with me. I'd be prepared to pay up to $500 but not a penny more, I would also be honest with him and let him know it was you on eBay and now that he doesn't have to pay seller fees that's money in his pocket. It's possible that when you tell him the process you've gone through and all the help forum members have been that he will cut you a deal. He's already learned it's not made of gold so maybe being honest and letting him feel like it's going to a good home will help out some.

If he says someone else is coming by with $700 just thank him and walk away, he'll call back when he doesn't get it. But, look around his shop and see if there's anything else worth getting from him. You never know what might come up when you start peeling off Benjamins'....

John

 

[Atlas2start]

Here's a thread with some info in the bearings hopefully someone else will chime in here with a definitive procedure. If you can feel play at the chuck they are most likely worn out but does that matter to you?

Atlas 10F-28 purchase questions?

I currently have a Harbor Freight 8 x 12 metal lathe, but need something with a longer bed. I found an Atlas number in the gear cover is 10f-28. I haven't looked at it yet, doesn't have a quick changer gear box, has babbit bearing. The bed length I'm assuming is 48 inches, owner says it's...

www.hobby-machinist.com

If I was going into this I would realize that probably the machine is going home with me. I'd be prepared to pay up to $500 but not a penny more, I would also be honest with him and let him know it was you on eBay and now that he doesn't have to pay seller fees that's money in his pocket. It's possible that when you tell him the process you've gone through and all the help forum members have been that he will cut you a deal. He's already learned it's not made of gold so maybe being honest and letting him feel like it's going to a good home will help out some.

If he says someone else is coming by with $700 just thank him and walk away, he'll call back when he doesn't get it. But, look around his shop and see if there's anything else worth getting from him. You never know what might come up when you start peeling off Benjamins'....

John

Also, right now, with the Covid19 stuff going on, alot of people are willing to give a lower price than they might otherwise. This might be even more true if this is how this person makes their living.

 

[matthewsx]

You can also let him know you'll be spending at least another $300 just to get it where you can find out if it's any good....

 

[Aaron_W]

$500 seems a reasonable price for that if it won't take a lot of work.

Some things to consider with this lathe. Those Craftsman lathes were based on a 10" Atlas lathe, and other than the swing it has much more in common with a modern 10x22 than its nominal 12x36 size would suggest. You (and he) should be comparing it to a $1500 (Grizzly) to $2500 (Precision Matthews) lathe, not a $3500-4800 12x36 from Grizzly or PM. A modern import 10x22 or 10x30 lathe will have more power (1HP vs 1/2-3/4hp), and a larger spindle bore (1" vs 25/32").

If you bought a new lathe it will generally come with 2 chucks, a 3 jaw and a 4 jaw, a steady rest, a follow rest, a face plate, drill chuck and live or dead center for the tail stock. Looks like you are covered on the 3 jaw and drill chuck, but lacking the rest. Looking at ebay currently there are a couple of steady rests for these lathes asking $175-300, follow rests are priced the same. A 4 jaw chuck will run you $150-200, centers are cheap $20-30, and a face plate $50-100. Many new lathes would also include a quick change tool post for another $150-200.

You don't necessarily need these, but for price comparisons these would be included.

So being generous lets compare to a Precision Matthews 10x30 at $2400 (which does include a QCTP). Lose 50% off the top for being used, so $1200, -$150 for the 4 jaw, -$350 for the steady and follow rests, -$50 for the face plate and drive dog, -$150 for the QCTP = $500.

If we compare to the cheaper Grizzly G0602 10x22 at $1550, he comes out of the deal owing you money. Actually if you add it all up, it comes out as $225, as the G0602 doesn't come with a QCTP.

Not putting down the lathe, but you have to be realistic about what you are looking at.

 

[ChandlerJPerry]

Here's a thread with some info in the bearings hopefully someone else will chime in here with a definitive procedure. If you can feel play at the chuck they are most likely worn out but does that matter to you?

Atlas 10F-28 purchase questions?

I currently have a Harbor Freight 8 x 12 metal lathe, but need something with a longer bed. I found an Atlas number in the gear cover is 10f-28. I haven't looked at it yet, doesn't have a quick changer gear box, has babbit bearing. The bed length I'm assuming is 48 inches, owner says it's...

www.hobby-machinist.com

If I was going into this I would realize that probably the machine is going home with me. I'd be prepared to pay up to $500 but not a penny more, I would also be honest with him and let him know it was you on eBay and now that he doesn't have to pay seller fees that's money in his pocket. It's possible that when you tell him the process you've gone through and all the help forum members have been that he will cut you a deal. He's already learned it's not made of gold so maybe being honest and letting him feel like it's going to a good home will help out some.

If he says someone else is coming by with $700 just thank him and walk away, he'll call back when he doesn't get it. But, look around his shop and see if there's anything else worth getting from him. You never know what might come up when you start peeling off Benjamins'....

John

Noted, I am slightly worried that some wide eyed newbie will pay what he's asking, especially since on KSL we can see ad traffic and I can see that it's had about 250 views and 7 favorites in the five hours since it's gone up. However that doesn't mean I'm going to compete, I don't feel comfortable at a number higher than $500. If someone else does, I will count that as their loss, not mine .

 

[ChandlerJPerry]

$500 seems a reasonable price for that if it won't take a lot of work.

Some things to consider with this lathe. Those Craftsman lathes were based on a 10" Atlas lathe, and other than the swing it has much more in common with a modern 10x22 than its nominal 12x36 size would suggest. You (and he) should be comparing it to a $1500 (Grizzly) to $2500 (Precision Matthews) lathe, not a $3500-4800 12x36 from Grizzly or PM. A modern import 10x22 or 10x30 lathe will have more power (1HP vs 1/2-3/4hp), and a larger spindle bore (1" vs 25/32").

If you bought a new lathe it will generally come with 2 chucks, a 3 jaw and a 4 jaw, a steady rest, a follow rest, a face plate, drill chuck and live or dead center for the tail stock. Looks like you are covered on the 3 jaw and drill chuck, but lacking the rest. Looking at ebay currently there are a couple of steady rests for these lathes asking $175-300, follow rests are priced the same. A 4 jaw chuck will run you $150-200, centers are cheap $20-30, and a face plate $50-100. Many new lathes would also include a quick change tool post for another $150-200.

You don't necessarily need these, but for price comparisons these would be included.

So being generous lets compare to a Precision Matthews 10x30 at $2400 (which does include a QCTP). Lose 50% off the top for being used, so $1200, -$150 for the 4 jaw, -$350 for the steady and follow rests, -$50 for the face plate and drive dog, -$150 for the QCTP = $500.

If we compare to the cheaper Grizzly G0602 10x22 at $1550, he comes out of the deal owing you money. Actually if you add it all up, it comes out as $225, as the G0602 doesn't come with a QCTP.

Not putting down the lathe, but you have to be realistic about what you are looking at.

I actually really appreciate this view because my comparison point for a used machine has been the PM line. It doesn't necessarily make sense to me why people believe they can sell their 70+ year old iron for $2000 when a brand new machine with the same feature set and better in many ways comes in at $400 more. Nostalgia I guess. Most of the 9 inch South Bends I see listed locally seem to be priced and sell at over $1500 without much tooling, it just doesn't make sense to me but people want what they want.

 

[ChandlerJPerry]

Well at this point I think the seller may not be worth the trouble... I got in touch with the seller today to discuss meeting time and place and was informed that due to the amount of interest and on someone's advice that the price would be increased to no less than $1,000. I explained that after money invested at that price it really wouldn't be worth it to buy the machine compared to a brand new Grizzly 10x22 and that I wouldn't give more than $500 for it. And that if he really had a buyer for $1,000 then by all means go ahead. The games people play with these machines price wise are absurd, that Grizzly 10x22 is honestly starting to look like a highly appealing option compared to what people are trying to get away with on my local classifieds.

EDIT: After giving him the information and explaining that it came from a forum of individuals dedicated to these machines he told me he would accept a minimum of $700 . Which was the starting negotiation price yesterday. I told him $500 max and to get in touch if he changes his mind.