Striatech DVR motor for PM's 2-3 HP lathes 1236,1236T,1340GT.. etc

[skcncx]

So what's the reason aftermarket motors are so hard to find to replace the motor in the PM-1236T (and possibly the 1340GT)?

Is it the size? Not much room to mount it in?
Is it a certain class of motor that's just not common?

The docs just say "TEFC (1.125 kW, 1.5 HP)."

I asked PM for the specs on the single or 3 phase motor for the 1236T and basically was told "we don't know". It can't be because it's some super top secret motor. Maybe it's just purpose built for this one application so there's nothing else like it. Seems like it would benefit them to have some easily replaceable.

 

[mksj]

It is easily replaceable if you use the stock motor. This is fairly typical of the smaller lathes that hang the motors off the back of the headstock, they do not have enough room for standard off the shelf motors. It's not that they do not care, it is how the manufacturer provides them. If you do a search there are a number of threads on the subject for the 1340GT which uses the same 3 phase motor. Basically a replacement motor is a TENV 145 frame size, 2Hp, 1750 RPM. The usual replacement motor is the Marathon E467A, Marathon Y551, Marathon Y526, Baldor/Reliance IDNM3587T motor and some other variants of these motors. The E467A is the easiest to fit because it is very short. Standard TEFC motors do not fit. The belt sizes are also different between the 1236T/1340GT, the motor dimensions are attached.

PM1340 lathe - motor swap to Marathon E-467, what pully to use?

Hey Guys, Been ~1.5 yrs now, since receiving my PM1340-GT and PM30-MV. Upon receiving, worked on getting the lathe outfitted with VFD, and other "retrofits" as found on this forum. mksj helped a lot! Thanks Mark! Also, PM30-MV has been "cnc'd" since, using Centroid Acorn, DMM AC servos and...

www.hobby-machinist.com

PM 1236/1340-T OEM Drive Belt Fragments

Anybody out there with the 1236/1340-T have any issues with the OEM Drive Belt? I have consistent small fragments coming off the belt when it runs. Has proper belt tension. I'm leaning more to a poor quality V-Belt as the culprit. What have you guys used as a replacement belt?

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Baldor IDNM3587T, tight fit and required some minimal mods. Only the factory motor is a drop in replacement. Almost all these motors will spin up to 120Hz, so you want to fit them with a small single belt pulley, this way you get the low speed benefit mechanical ratio and also the same top end speed range as the high speed pulley.

 

[Ischgl99]

I’m not sure I would buy the motor from PM just yet. It’s nice that it would be a drop in fit, but that motor uses class E windings, which are two steps below standard NEMA motors with F class from companies like Baldor, so that could limit how long it will last under VFD operation. E class insulation has a lower rating than B class, that is a bit lower than F class. Lower class winding insulation tends to not last as long as the higher quality F and H insulation class when used with VFDs. As hobbyists, we generally don’t push our machines like industrial users do, so I think the motor is good enough that most people would not need to upgrade it, but if I needed to replace it, I would most likely get a better quality one even though getting a motor from someone else will most likely will need some modifications, and cost more, but it is probably the best long term solution.

The motor area on these lathes is very short as you can see in the pictures Mark posted, so standard NEMA TEFC motors won’t fit. TENV motors don’t have a cooling fan, so tend to be shorter, and are more likely to fit. Since lathes are operated intermittently, you probably will not need a fan to cool the motor. The motor supplied has an IEC 90L foot mounting and shaft height, but a 19mm shaft instead of the 24mm standard for that size motor. IEC motors many times are a bit smaller than an equivalent power NEMA motor, so they only made it as big as is needed. There are 2hp 90L motors available that will fit, but I haven’t found one with the inverter duty rating and constant torque ratings as the motors mentioned above. If you were going to do a lot of slow speed operation, those would be the best choice, but if you just wanted a drop in alternative to the PM motor, there are some options available. The Baldor EMM3558 looks like it will fit in the existing space without modifications, but it is not inverter rated and has class B windings. You can still run it on a VFD, it’s just not as good a choice as an inverter rated motor. So better than the PM motor, but not as good as the others. Also keep in mind with a 90L motor, with the 24mm shaft, the keyway comes through the smaller v groove on the pulley, so if you switch the motor, the keyway might hit the belt if you use the smaller v groove with the existing pulley. You don’t have that problem with a NEMA motor since the shaft size is a bit smaller.

To keep your budget from really balloning, single phase should be fine for now. Another consideration, shipping times are often delayed, so the arrival date for the three phase machines could be pushed back even further, so it could be next summer before you get a three phase machine. That will give you time to search for something that might be a closer match than a NEMA motor that definitely needs a new mounting bracket, or modifications to fit. And maybe you decide you are perfectly happy with the single phase motor and don’t need to spend the money on variable speed.

 

[skcncx]

It is easily replaceable if you use the stock motor. This is fairly typical of the smaller lathes that hang the motors off the back of the headstock, they do not have enough room for standard off the shelf motors. It's not that they do not care, it is how the manufacturer provides them. If you do a search there are a number of threads on the subject for the 1340GT which uses the same 3 phase motor. Basically a replacement motor is a TENV 145 frame size, 2Hp, 1750 RPM. The usual replacement motor is the Marathon E467A, Marathon Y551, Marathon Y526, Baldor/Reliance IDNM3587T motor and some other variants of these motors. The E467A is the easiest to fit because it is very short. Standard TEFC motors do not fit. The belt sizes are also different between the 1236T/1340GT, the motor dimensions are attached.

PM1340 lathe - motor swap to Marathon E-467, what pully to use?

Hey Guys, Been ~1.5 yrs now, since receiving my PM1340-GT and PM30-MV. Upon receiving, worked on getting the lathe outfitted with VFD, and other "retrofits" as found on this forum. mksj helped a lot! Thanks Mark! Also, PM30-MV has been "cnc'd" since, using Centroid Acorn, DMM AC servos and...

www.hobby-machinist.com

PM 1236/1340-T OEM Drive Belt Fragments

Anybody out there with the 1236/1340-T have any issues with the OEM Drive Belt? I have consistent small fragments coming off the belt when it runs. Has proper belt tension. I'm leaning more to a poor quality V-Belt as the culprit. What have you guys used as a replacement belt?

www.hobby-machinist.com

EMW e-commerce

www.electricmotorwholesale.com

Baldor IDNM3587T, tight fit and required some minimal mods. Only the factory motor is a drop in replacement. Almost all these motors will spin up to 120Hz, so you want to fit them with a small single belt pulley, this way you get the low speed benefit mechanical ratio and also the same top end speed range as the high speed pulley.
View attachment 415561

Thanks for al this info! Looks like the baldor is an overall length of 14" if I read their size right for the Baldor/Reliance IDNM3587T, would imagine the main body is around 11-12 inches. That marathon is pretty short, overall length, including shaft is only 11.5" at most, so likely the bod is around 9.5".

From your pick the length seems to be the biggest constraint... though, I'm not sure how much the overall diameter of motors fluctuate I'll look up the other specs on those motors you listed.

 

[skcncx]

I’m not sure I would buy the motor from PM just yet. It’s nice that it would be a drop in fit, but that motor uses class E windings, which are two steps below standard NEMA motors with F class from companies like Baldor, so that could limit how long it will last under VFD operation. E class insulation has a lower rating than B class, that is a bit lower than F class. Lower class winding insulation tends to not

I need to do my research on the difference classes and rating of motors... this really helped me out to understand. I new TEFC meant totally enclosed fan cooled... was not aware of the TENV nor the different specs/ratings on windings, aka quality of the motor.

I had a baldor motor on my last dust collection system, a big cyclone setup, that thing was heafty and very long.

Another consideration, shipping times are often delayed, so the arrival date for the three phase machines could be pushed back even further, so it could be next summer before you get a three phase machine

Yea, I don't think I'll jump on the PM 3 phase motor yet and lean to getting the lathe sooner with my current order of single phase... I'm already way ahead of myself on a lot of this.... the realization I'm coming to . Gotta figure out my stand setup, DRO and what inserts/tooling I plan to start with. So far, I've primarily turned aluminum. Most of what I have with my atlas 618 won't carry over and I'll just sell it all.

That $399 for the 3 phase motor would probably be better spent on high quality 3 jaw adjustable chuck or a 4 jaw.. the PM-1236T only comes with what they call an "economy chuck".

Can say thanks enough to all who have guided me in my learning. I enjoy the research and figuring it out, but when you are so "green", there's a lot I'm realizing I don't know. Just trying to set myself up with a great solution that will last a long time.... heck, if the 1340GT was in stock sooner, I'd probably spring for that.

 

[Ischgl99]

There is a ton of information with motors, many different configurations for all sorts of applications. That is definitely a rabbit hole that can wait.

To be honest, a big part of the reason I bought the 1236T is because it was in stock in three phase and the 1340gt was I think a couple months out. I wanted to get it before the snow came, and didn’t feel I needed the hardened gears for my uses.

The three jaw chuck that comes with the lathe is ok, nothing great. I’m not sure it is made in Taiwan, there is not a country of origin like on the 4 jaw chuck, so I assume it is made in China. Runout was 0.007”, so fine for first ops, but not as good as I would have expected being a Taiwanese lathe. I like the 4 jaw chuck, that one is well made and worth the money. Part of the reason I went with the 1236t is the included 3 jaw chuck, a small reason, but a reason none the less. Had I known that it wasn’t Taiwanese, I might have opted for the 1340GT and bought a back plate for my Bison 5” 3 jaw chuck instead. It worked out in the long run, the Bison is the right size for my dividing head.

 

[mksj]

The issues with the motor insulation and rating tend to be more of a factor when operating the motors at the higher voltages (over 400V), and typically dual voltage motors do not have issues when run off of a VFD at the lower voltage. The stock lathe motors are single voltage, and not inverter rated, but I have yet to hear of a motor failure running it off of a VFD. TENV motors do not need any cooling fans even at the extremes of its operating range, they rely on the mass and convection to dissipate the heat as opposed to a fan. Three phase motors that are designed to operate over a wide speed range (i.e. vector motors with a constant torque ratio of 1000:1 or greater) are either TENV (no fan) or TEBC (electric fan). Motors with mechanical fans, tend to cool poorly below ~15-20Hz, and the fan can fail at high RPM. So a TEFC motor I usually recommend a 20-100 Hz range, I have a TEBC vector motor on my mill and it operates from 20-200 Hz. The TENV motors I have installed just get slightly warm, even with hard use. They are very quiet in operation.

The TENV inverter/vector motors come up on eBay new for 20-50% of current market pricing, so it is a matter of hunting and looking, you have plenty of time to snag a good deal if looking. Below are two 1.5Hp versions of the Baldor IDNM/IDVSNM, these are vector type motors so designed to be used with a VFD. They are beasts, and if you can get the first motor for $200-225 shipped, I would say that is a very good deal with he cost of shipping. I would want to see a picture of the first motor before buying it although he says it is new, then make an offer if you are interested. Given that the 1236T single phase is 1.5Hp, and also that you can substantially over drive the inverter type motors, you should have no shortage of power. There was a 2Hp version of the IDVSNM3587T that just was sold to another HM member at about 10% of current market cost.
Baldor-Reliance IDNM3584T Inverter Drive Motor, 1.5HP, 1760 rpm, 145TC

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Baldor IDNM3584T Industrial Control System for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Baldor IDNM3584T Industrial Control System at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

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[skcncx]

To be honest, a big part of the reason I bought the 1236T is because it was in stock in three phase and the 1340gt was I think a couple months out. I wanted to get it before the snow came, and didn’t feel I needed the hardened gears for my uses.

I don't need the hardened gears for my light usage for sure, just a few hours a week at most over the long run... but I'm not sure how much benefit the "ground" gears on the 1340GT is. PM touts... "Hardened and Ground gears throughout headstock, which leads to extremely smooth and quiet running for a geared head lathe". I'm hoping the 1236T is a well oiled and smoothing running lathe, quiet(er) is always nice as well.

The three jaw chuck that comes with the lathe is ok, nothing great. I’m not sure it is made in Taiwan,

Yea, they list it as "economy", I have no allusion it's anything special, I'd rather they drop the price and let me pick. But, if it's part of the package though, I'll start with it. 1340GT without any chuck s $500 more, plus a $700 3 jaw adjustable chuck so, the 1340GT is really $1200 more... granted a little bigger, better chuck and 2 more years on warranty.

One thing that pushed me from the 1228 to the 1236T was the nicer steady and follower rest. Disappointed the micrometer stop is not part of the package. I'll probably never use/buy, but a taper attachment is at least available.

I like the 4 jaw chuck, that one is well made and worth the money.

Good to know. I have yet to use a 4 jaw, nor know how to properly dial in stock for swapping/flipping parts. So far most of what I have done hasn't required parts to be flipped or re-chucked so a 3 jaw scroll has worked out well. PM also has a 6" 4 jaw that's less than half the $ of their 8" 4 jaw, but doesn't appear to be as high quality. With a D1-4 mount I have many sources and options to choose from.

I still need to source of bunch of little things, like a ball oiler can for IS68 oils, tool inserts for aluminum and steel, way & gear oil and all those maintenance items to keep it serviced nicely.

 

[skcncx]

The issues with the motor insulation and rating tend to be more of a factor when operating the motors at the higher voltages (over 400V), and typically dual voltage motors do not have issues when run off of a VFD at the lower voltage. The stock lathe motors are single voltage, and not inverter rated, but I have yet to hear of a motor failure running it off of a VFD. TENV motors do not need any cooling fans even at the extremes of its operating range, they rely on the mass and convection to dissipate the heat as opposed to a fan. Three phase motors that are designed to operate over a wide speed range (i.e. vector motors with a constant torque ratio of 1000:1 or greater) are either TENV (no fan) or TEBC (electric fan). Motors with mechanical fans, tend to cool poorly below ~15-20Hz, and the fan can fail at high RPM. So a TEFC motor I usually recommend a 20-100 Hz range, I have a TEBC vector motor on my mill and it operates from 20-200 Hz. The TENV motors I have installed just get slightly warm, even with hard use. They are very quiet in operation.

The TENV inverter/vector motors come up on eBay new for 20-50% of current market pricing, so it is a matter of hunting and looking, you have plenty of time to snag a good deal if looking. Below are two 1.5Hp versions of the Baldor IDNM/IDVSNM, these are vector type motors so designed to be used with a VFD. They are beasts, and if you can get the first motor for $200-225 shipped, I would say that is a very good deal with he cost of shipping. I would want to see a picture of the first motor before buying it although he says it is new, then make an offer if you are interested. Given that the 1236T single phase is 1.5Hp, and also that you can substantially over drive the inverter type motors, you should have no shortage of power. There was a 2Hp version of the IDVSNM3587T that just was sold to another HM member at about 10% of current market cost.
Baldor-Reliance IDNM3584T Inverter Drive Motor, 1.5HP, 1760 rpm, 145TC

Baldor IDNM3584T General Purpose Motor for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Baldor IDNM3584T General Purpose Motor at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Baldor IDNM3584T Industrial Control System for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Baldor IDNM3584T Industrial Control System at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Thanks for all this info... i certainly know a lot more and more confident as to what to look for.. like the models you listed . Sounds like a 1.5 HP on a VFD where you can over drive it along with the right gear selection on the lathe... no need for a 2 HP.

Given all the remaining extras I need to buy, I'll need to resist for now, as hard as it is. However, the more I think about it, the braking feature on a VFD'd motor might be just as important to me as the RPM tuning.. I'll be curious to see how fast the PM-1236T takes to stop with just the factory single phase motor.

 

[Ischgl99]

I'm hoping the 1236T is a well oiled and smoothing running lathe, quiet(er) is always nice as well.

Mine runs smooth, I don’t know if the hardened gears would be better, but no complaints.

I have yet to use a 4 jaw, nor know how to properly dial in stock for swapping/flipping parts.

It just takes a bit of practice dialing something in and then you can do it fairly quickly. Look on YouTube for a video by Abom79 on dialing in parts on a 4 jaw, he is wicked fast. Unless most of what you do is small, the larger 8” chuck would be better. You can hold a small part in a large chuck (to a point), but you can’t hold a large part in a smaller chuck. An 8” 4 jaw chuck is a good size for a 12” lathe.

I still need to source of bunch of little things, like a ball oiler can for IS68 oils, tool inserts for aluminum and steel, way & gear oil and all those maintenance items to keep it serviced nicely.

I use a standard oil can I got from Tractor Supply for the ball oilers. I think it cost $5. For your oils, see if you have a local Napa Auto store, my local store has a good supply of oils and I believe they can also get way oil. I got mine from McMaster-Carr before I knew to look at Napa, but then you have to pay shipping.