Steel hardening questions

[Downunder Bob]

Thanks for the feedback. given what you're trying to make and the resources you have, i would make them out of steel and hard face them. you will get a low cost easy to make item that will last along time and is easy to repair. In fact if you want to experiment with shapes and sizes just make them out of steel test them and then hard face the best ones. Also you might want to make them out of a tough steel. Old car/truck springs work well, also car drive axles.

 

[MozamPete]

You could also try experimenting with a Superquench solution (google "superquench" for some formula). I haven't tried in but is supposedly allows mild steel to be hardend up a bit by cooling it even quicker than water will. The formula uses pretty readily available component so not too much of an investment to give it a try.

 

[D1005]

Thanks for the feedback. given what you're trying to make and the resources you have, i would make them out of steel and hard face them. you will get a low cost easy to make item that will last along time and is easy to repair. In fact if you want to experiment with shapes and sizes just make them out of steel test them and then hard face the best ones. Also you might want to make them out of a tough steel. Old car/truck springs work well, also car drive axles.

While other steel has been mentioned above, I just had a "Well duh" moment. I recently tossed some leaf springs off an old golf cart that was on the property when we bought the place 10 years ago, into the headed for the scrap yard pile. I've never worked with spring steel, so now I have a whole new load of questions about that.

Cutting it. Will a metal cutting bandsaw cut the stuff ok? Or do I need to attack it with the angle grinder?

Golf cart leaf springs are kinda "springy", is that from their smaller size, or a different composition? Would that make them tougher or less than car or truck springs? Either way, no doubt a lot harder than the current steel in question. Is harder even the proper term? Higher carbon content be more precise? Something else?

Does the heat from welding it affect it's hardness any?

Would it need any heat treating after the welding?

I'm thinking build the shoes pretty much as planned, but weld a piece of leaf to the face of the shoe attacking the gravel.

Just goes to show, being old has given me lots of experience, but not in everything. LOL

 

[Downunder Bob]

The advantages of using old springs are. 1 they are usually available free. 2. spring steel is usually very good quality.

4 Depending on the heat treatment you can make it really very hard and can be honed to a fine edge, as in a knife.

Or you can draw the temper a little more and end up with it being very tough, so it won't break, that will make excellent ripper blades, you can still hardface them for extra wear ability. that is the way I would go.

You should be able to cut spring steel with HSS blades but you could also anneal it before working on it and then re harden it after hardening draw the temper so you can just file it.

 

[ericc]

This may be off base but I looked at purchasing a DR grader for my driveway at one time. They have a row of ripper teeth to loosen the gravel. Funny thing is they sure looked like brazed carbide lathe tools welded to a bar. Like this

View attachment 278048

OK, now I know what I found in the dirt. The shank sparked as tool steel, similar to A2, and the wear insert on the end sparked as carbide. But, it didn't look like a lathe tool at all. Maybe if I can find it in the junk box, it can be repurposed into some kind of form tool.

 

[D1005]

Bob,

Dug the leaf springs out of the toss 'em barrel, looks like a perfect size for my application.

Been working on my drawings for some time today, after measuring all the bits and pieces of stuff I have laying around, I think I can build at least 90%, hopefully all of it, from stock on hand. YEE HA! Just need a couple of hydraulic hoses and fittings. Made a lot of changes to make it work, but one does what one's gotta to do.

While my setup will differ from commercial units, the rippers are looking good. Cut the angled feet from the same stock the shanks are, weld them to the bottom of the shanks, then weld the spring steel to the face of feet attacking the gravel. Essentially putting shoes on the feet. Of course this will totally heat them up as they are only 7/32" thick. So I reckon some sort of surface hardening may be in order. Should last essentially forever at least.

Planning stages almost complete now, now to not lose all my notes until building begins. I can remember how to figure dairy cattle rations from 1980 better than I can remember what I read about heat treatment of steel yesterday. Winter's coming, no heat in the shop, and circulation to the hands suck, so not sure I'll be able to finish this year as I'm currently in the finishing stages of another project.

Thanks for everyone's help. Of course I'll not remember who said what, or even what you said, but I have notes. I'll also have to go back and read the research again. Sucks to get old, and I'm not that damn old!

Dale

 

[D1005]

If you stated your requirement you would be helping people to help you, Silver steel and 01 Tool steel are available at reasonable prices.

If you need hardened parts find or buy the right material for your job.
Unless of course your time and your work is worth nothing?

Time is free, thus worth nothing.

 

[D1005]

While painting another project, I set up the bandsaw to cut the first foot. Now you can see what I was actually talking about.

Spring steel will be welded to the cut surface for the wear edge. Thanks again for all your inputs.

 

[Downunder Bob]

Bob,

Dug the leaf springs out of the toss 'em barrel, looks like a perfect size for my application.

Been working on my drawings for some time today, after measuring all the bits and pieces of stuff I have laying around, I think I can build at least 90%, hopefully all of it, from stock on hand. YEE HA! Just need a couple of hydraulic hoses and fittings. Made a lot of changes to make it work, but one does what one's gotta to do.

While my setup will differ from commercial units, the rippers are looking good. Cut the angled feet from the same stock the shanks are, weld them to the bottom of the shanks, then weld the spring steel to the face of feet attacking the gravel. Essentially putting shoes on the feet. Of course this will totally heat them up as they are only 7/32" thick. So I reckon some sort of surface hardening may be in order. Should last essentially forever at least.

Planning stages almost complete now, now to not lose all my notes until building begins. I can remember how to figure dairy cattle rations from 1980 better than I can remember what I read about heat treatment of steel yesterday. Winter's coming, no heat in the shop, and circulation to the hands suck, so not sure I'll be able to finish this year as I'm currently in the finishing stages of another project.

Thanks for everyone's help. Of course I'll not remember who said what, or even what you said, but I have notes. I'll also have to go back and read the research again. Sucks to get old, and I'm not that damn old!

Dale

Don't know how you guys survive in that brass monkey weather without heat. I never let my shop go below 16c around 60f and we never see ice or snow here.
"Sucks to get old, and I'm not that damn old!" Sure does, I'm 74 nearly 75, but as long as I can keep warm I'm ok, just a bit slow and can't lift anything. I can still remember most, about 90%, of what I've learned. It just takes a while to bring it to the surface.

While painting another project, I set up the bandsaw to cut the first foot. Now you can see what I was actually talking about.

Spring steel will be welded to the cut surface for the wear edge. Thanks again for all your inputs.

That looks fairly solid, should do a good job of ripping your driveway. make the leading edge of springsteel and when that wears build it up with a hard face electrode, there are quite a few types available, some are for impact others for metal to metal wear, and some for earth moving equip. that's the one you want, but your local welding supply guy should be able to advise the best for the job.

 

[D1005]

Personally, I survive by not going outside in winter, nor the heat of summer. Every year the comfort zone gets narrower. 4 months of "hibernating" in winter, 1-2 months in summer.

You have me by a few years with age, 61 here, but I guess I just led too fun of a life, as several parts have broken down, worn out, and I'm on disability with a very limited income. Makes my "work" days in the shop an hour long on average. Any more than that, and it's 2-3 days recovery time. Guess you might say I'm not old, just severly worn.

The bar stock is 3/4x1 3/4" (I really wish the US would convert to metric and join the rest of the world, it's so much easier, but fractions are how stuff comes, so it's fractions I have to contend with) Should be more than sturdy enough. I'm no engineer, just overbuild to where I know it just HAS to be strong enough.

Cover the front of the foot with the spring steel. I'm not planning on more than 2" deep, so all wear would be on the spring steel. When grading with just a blade, the larger, mostly buried, aggregate tends to "pop" out, leaving the surface all larger stone, no fines for binding. 2" should be ample to keep it mixed. They'll be adjustable of course so depth can be experimented with, and go no deeper than required.

While I buy new stock on occasion, the vast majority of what I use is scrap yard metal, or 1/2 price drops from the only shop I've found that still provides actual customer service to the average joe. The only place that will cut for hauling for free, if you buy a full stick. That doesn't happen very often for me, but it's always a consideration. When designing a project, try to make it all from the same thing. Yeah, right.