Southbend 9 x 48 - How worn is too worn?

[Taz]

1946 Southbend 9" Model A Restoration

I'm looking at another Southbend, this one a 9 x 48 with quick change gears, and original cabinet/stand. I'm still waiting on a serial number, but he says the bed is a little worn near the head. It seems pretty obvious that we wouldn't ever want ANY deviation in the ways, but what I'm wondering is considering the filler products available, and repair techniques like scraping, how much wear would be considered too much to deal with? I have zero problem picking up a little bit of a project, especially at this price, I just don't want to wind up searching for a replacement bed because it was un-repairable.

Changed title from "Southbend 9 x 48 - How worn is too worn?" to "1946 Southbend 9" Model A Restoration".

 

[Taz]

So it's a 1947 model, 9 x 54 actually. Comes with a 3 jaw chuck, steady rest, taper attachment, and original stand. Looks pretty well cared for, gears are all shiny and smooth, well lubed, the spindle has a little play, slides to the tail/head a little but not radially. It has about .001 in wear across the flats, and the peak of the ways, but the gib has carved about .03 out of the faces. There is a pronounced ridge atop the peak facing the operator. It only goes for about 16 inches of the length. Looks fixable, but that also looks like a lot of iron to true up.

He wants $700... what do you think?

 

[macrnr]

Sounds too high to me. $500.00 would be a better number. A taper attachment is worth a lot, but if you can feel a ridge on the prism way, the bed is toast. Beds can be had, but they are a pain to ship and you will pay accordingly.

 

[Taz]

So it's not repairable?

 

[macrnr]

I'm sure it is repairable, the question would be is it worth repairing? Richard King, who is a moderator for the MACHINE WAY SCRAPING AND RESTORATION thread

on this site would be the one to ask. That thread resides two slots above this one.

 

[Taz]

I shall give it a go, thanks for the tip! I've done enough scraping to know that 38 inches of one and 54 of 5 more is a huge project, but I'm thinking of either filler for that small section, or just scraping the one face, and making a new prism to fill the gap. I'll ask him.

 

[Richard King]

So it's a 1947 model, 9 x 54 actually. Comes with a 3 jaw chuck, steady rest, taper attachment, and original stand. Looks pretty well cared for, gears are all shiny and smooth, well lubed, the spindle has a little play, slides to the tail/head a little but not radially. It has about .001 in wear across the flats, and the peak of the ways, but the gib has carved about .03 out of the faces. There is a pronounced ridge atop the peak facing the operator. It only goes for about 16 inches of the length. Looks fixable, but that also looks like a lot of iron to true up.

He wants $700... what do you think?

I started to read your post and was surprised to see my name....and it is a coincidence. It would help if you could take a few pictures and add them...The gib is carved out of the faces? I'm not sure what you mean? If you have a mag base and indicator a quick method of checking the wear in those V-ways near the chuck it to crank the saddle /carriage up next to the chuck and put the mag on the saddle on left front side and reach the indicator out to the end of the of the left front ways where the ways are not worn and zero the indicator with about .020" pressure on it.

Then crank the saddle / carriage to the right and see what you get. There will be a bit of a false reading when the saddle rides through the low area, but it will get you pretty close to knowing. Check all the ways that way. The ideal way would be to separate the and use that as a sled to go from the tail-stock ways because Tail-stock ways near the chuck never get any wear. Maybe some dings on them when the chick was removed. So you can stone the TS ways and mount the mag base on the TS bottom and again reach out with the indicator rod and indicator and test the ways for wear.

I always say if it is worn more then .005" get it machined or ground. I would try to keep the front and back V way equal and put a wear strip under the saddle to bring the saddle / carriage back to the same height so the feed shafts and rack go back to the original location. I discussed this with Tadd on one of the posts in my section. He has some photo's too of his SB. I would say that machine is worth at least $1000.00 or it would be up here in MN. If you think of the prices of those imports are 2 to 3 times more then that and no resale value. The SB will hold the value for ever, even if it's a bucket of bolts.

 

[Taz]

YOU were surprised to see YOUR name? I see your name everywhere google takes me! You have quite the reputation when it comes to machine tool rebuilding... thanks for the reply.

You know in my haste last night I didn't take any photos of the machine, except the serial umber, and the brass plate on the gearbox. Here is a drawing that should do the job though.



It's only in the one v way (closest to the operator), and only extends to about 16" from the chuck. Looks like someone had a habit of locking the saddle down, and forgetting to unlock it. The ways were clean, but showed no sign of recent lubrication either.

 

[Richard King]

I meant in this forum and in another section of it. I would think if you were to put your name on and not a Handle, then your name would be highlighted on the net too if you answered questions a lot too. Your machine is so different them 99% of lathes. The inside V is usually the one that wears the most because that's wear the chips lay and are trapped as the outside the chip fall to the floor or into a pan. If the machine is good accept that way and the other ways are not worn more then .005" then You could scrape the bed or file it as you said. Then put on Turcite or Rulon or Phenolic on the one side. I generally never see or do this, but have done it one time in my 40+ years of rebuilding machines. But hey it would work. If I was doing it for a customer I would do the whole saddle. I would machine the bottom of the saddle to remove the material needed so you could use .047". The majority of machine builders use this thickness as the figure you will have to scrape off .005" off to match fit. I need to go now, but can write more later, but I would bet you could find more on the net. Texas Tornado on HMS has a excellent post detailing his lathe where he uses Turcite on his saddle.
Have a great day. Rich

 

[Taz]

Thanks again. I will continue to read up, but any additional info you provide I will eat up! I brought only a 48in straight edge (not a carpenters straight edge), a light, and some feelers last night. I'll bring the magnetic base and indicator next visit, and check the saddle movement.

This is just a hobby machine, so I'm inclined to believe if it runs tight and true, then run it. My nature is always to attempt perfection too. Looks like having it ground can be pretty expensive, but if scraping is an option I don't see a reason not to buy it. I did a small scraping project on an x-y table, and enjoyed it thoroughly, whoops's and all. Looking at the bed and saddle it would seem to be a little more complex to measure and fit, but one hell of a fun project, with a nice lathe on the other side.