SMAW/Stick machines - options?

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FlyFishn

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This isn't a "project" topic, but I didn't see any other sections that dealt with welding so I figured this was the closest. If the mods want it somewhere else feel free to move.

My question is related to welders out there that do SMAW/stick welding, both AC and both polarities of DC, that are respectable machines.

My machine is a FCAW/flux core 110v unit that is pretty light duty. I've done some significant welding with it - more than I should. I've run it on 1/4" A36 before and have not had a weld break on me so I suppose that is a good thing.

What I want to be able to do is up to 1/2" A36, with the rare exception of thicker. Multi-pass on the thicker metal isn't a problem so long as I can get adequate access to the joints for it. So the "sweet spot" for what I am after with welding is metal thickness is between 3/16" and 1/2".

I don't want to limit myself to electrodes, nor just mild steel. So having both DC polarities, also, is a must.

Another must is single phase power.

A few weeks ago I took a project over to a buddy's shop and used his AC stick machine. With 3/32" 6011 electrodes I turned the amperage down to 90 or so. We started at 150. I had 3/8" and 1/2" plate being welded to 1/4" square tube wall. The arc was just about to blow through the 1/4" so I pulled the amps back so I could get a better weld bead without blowing through the base metal. One root pass and 2 passes on top to fillet. In some areas I laid a cap pass on top to clean up the appearance some, but I don't think that was necessary for strength - the 3 other passes, ugly as they were, penetrated plenty far and had plenty of surface area to stick to.

I do not know what the welder was - but it was AC-only and run between 90-150a. On that diameter/type electrode that worked for the project - and those were the heaviest welds I've ever had to do. With larger diameter electrodes the current would likely need to go up, as to where I am not sure - so that is one wild card.

The Lincoln AC/DC 225 "tombstone" welder looks like quite a classic, and doesn't take up a whole lot of space. They look quite a bit smaller than my buddy's AC machine. However, they are fairly light duty cycle welders from what I see. Maybe that won't hurt me too much on the lower amperages?

What are your thoughts? Are there any specs that you think I should have a better idea of?

Something else I don't quite know the in's and out's of is how the welders do "DC". They obviously have to have a rectifier post-transformer. Do they filter that DC with capacitors? Inductors? Or is it all just "dirty" (unfiltered) DC pulsing above or below 0v at 60hz with the AC cycle, just all in one direction? Or does that depend on the welder?

I am not looking to get overly detailed - my goal is namely to be able to weld thicker mild steel, and for that AC will do the job. I just don't want to limit myself to it if I can get more bang for my buck in an AC/DC power supply.

Later down the road I want to be able to do TIG and MIG, but I don't want either as options on a stick power supply. I just want stick, thats all. It will be a good back-up machine if I get a better unit for MIG and TIG later.
 
It sounds like you only want to stick with "old school" technology. You can most certainly 'get by', but modern day inverters are something to behold in-person. Small as a lunch-box, packing the same punch as that older tombstone. As to how they arrive at DC I would not be able to tell you, but what I can tell you is that a quality inverter will lay the smack-down and dance with the devil in the pale moonlight any day.

As for 'needing' AC, unless you do a lot of high-amp stick welding which is how you get arc-blow, there is not too much of a need for AC IMO. Arc-blow can be tamed & mitigated by expanding your mind and creating different return paths via multiple work clamps.

If you want DC TIG and MIG as well as stick SMAW, look into investing into an HTP ProPulse 220MTS. On the GMAW side it can weld up to ¼" steel, FCAW-S 3/8", GMAW ¼" aluminum without needing to buy a spoolgun; on the (pedal-capable) TIG side you have DC-only for steels and other DC-polarity metals, and as a stick welder you can run all electrodes except E6010 cellulosic electrodes (technically I can run them, but the machine is not rated to do so). On all 3 processes you have 200A at your disposal, and all 3 processes are capable of utilizing remote amperage control to control the heat on-the-fly (yes, on the MIG and Stick side as well!), and it is quite the exquisite machine. It is made in Italy and is top notch. It is not a production level machine however, it's still a medium-duty/fabrication machine.


uc



Forgot to add, if SMAW is all you need, there is no better DC inverter welder than this one IMO.


uc




Here is one video I made with it:

 
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If you want a stick welder, look for a used Miller Thunderbolt AcDc machine. They are pretty much bulletproof. Great hobby machine. Aclands Grainger also branded the same welder only orange. I’ve had my Miller 20 years and my Aclands machine was given to me. Both weld excellent. Ac and DcI have welded stainless too with a carbon rod and filler rod.
Cheers
Martin
 
I would stay away from the old ac only buzz box. They are hard to run to make a decent weld. Most all of my stick welding is dc with low hydrogen rod. If it's affordable i would look at a tig unit with high frequency ac for welding aluminum too. The tig units will run stick just fine. 90% of my welding on the farm is stick . The metal doesn't have to be as clean and a breeze doesn't blow the shield has away.
 
Thanks for the replies. I am not looking to "invest" in a nice welder at the moment. I do have that goal in mind, believe me. It just isn't in the cards. I've been welding stuff at home with the flux core machine since I was in high school. Dad got it for some repairs around the house - lawnmower deck was one project I remember back around the time he got it. The projects I've done with it in the years since have gradually got bigger and bigger - really too big for it, but I've made it work.

General Zod said:
If you want DC TIG and MIG as well as stick SMAW, look into investing into an HTP ProPulse 220MTS.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I'll check it out. The unit I've had my eye on is a Miller XMT-350 Field Pro with polarity reversing. I just don't have $10,000 to set it up for all processes how I'd like.

Martin W said:
If you want a stick welder, look for a used Miller Thunderbolt AcDc machine. They are pretty much bulletproof.
Click to expand...

Good info. Thanks.

Nutfarmer said:
I would stay away from the old ac only buzz box. They are hard to run to make a decent weld.
Click to expand...

I've only run stick a handful of times, so I certainly have some practicing to do. However, I agree with the AC-only. It is a limitation. I am sure I would develop a better preference over time, but AC can still stick steel together for a strong joint. Ultimately that is what matters. Yea, a better looking appearance is nice but that contradicts the Gorilla Weld - strong but ugly. At least having DC, in addition to AC, would expand the capabilities a lot - and that is about as far as I want to take things. The inverter technology looks nice, but again - I'm not looking to dump a lot of money.
 
FlyFishn said:
Thanks for the replies. I am not looking to "invest" in a nice welder at the moment. ...... I'm not looking to dump a lot of money. ............The unit I've had my eye on is a Miller XMT-350 Field Pro with polarity reversing.
Click to expand...

Seemingly an oxymoron, lol. :face slap: sorry, that smiley was just too funny to not use it, lol.
 
No worries. I think you know what I meant. It's one thing to "window shop", its another to get something to get by with...
 
Yup. It would probably help everybody if you posted your actual budget for this welder. I mean, we can sit here and go back-and-forth until the end of days, but in the end if the weight is missing from your wallet, it will be all for nothing and no one gets their time back. :)
 
The Lincoln AC/DC 225 is around what I am asking about - no specific number, but I want to browse the used market and keep an eye out for something that suits. I am not crazy about a bigger box welders than the tombstones, but I won't rule them out. I am not sure where the Thunderbolts stack up, I haven't looked in to them or how prevalent they are on the used market.

For example - if I can find a Thunderbolt that does AC and DC for $450 and theres a Lincoln AC 225 for $150 I'd rather get the Thunderbolt because it does DC.

I just don't know what else is out there that I can add to the watch list - and that was the point of the thread. I just want gorilla welding ability from a stick machine, but spruced up a bit with the ability to run DC. Yeah, that might be leaving a lot on the table for weld quality, even still, but the capability I'd have over my flux core machine would be awesome. That's my goal at the moment. Later down the road I can look in to that XMT-350 set... Or ProPulse.
 
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