Should I buy a mill or lathe as my first piece of equipment?

[Tom Griffin]

Yes, the size of the hole through the spindle is an important consideration. It's a real pain to have to machine the end of a long shaft if it's too large to go through the spindle of the lathe.

You'll need to post a bit more before you'll get access to the download section. I think 20 posts is the magic number.

Finding someone local who is willing to check out a machine can be a big help. It's easy to overlook important gotchas if you aren't familiar with something you are buying.

Tom

 

[gearhead]

Thanks again, Tom. If I keep asking these questions, won't be long before I've reached the magic number.

This hole size brings up what's probably a good set of questions: What are the key sizes to consider on a lathe when looking to purchase one? So far as I can tell there's the swing, the hole size and the center-to-center distance. Any others I should be looking at?

 

[Tom Griffin]

Well, there is the swing over the ways which is the common means of sizing a lathe vs. swing over the cross slide which is a more realistic measurement. Heavy industrial lathes will have less swing over the cross slide than a light lathe with comparable swing due to the sheer mass of the carriage. That's why the heavier industrial oriented lathes tend to have larger swings, as in 15" and up. Other than that, you are armed with the right numbers to keep in mind when shopping.

BTW, if you want a copy of "How to Run a Lathe" pronto, you can get one at Vintage Machinery.

Tom

 

[gearhead]

I see what you're saying there, Tom. Makes sense. If you have a big lathe, you've got a large carriage (am i using that word right?), and so you're losing extra swing space because the carriage is taking up some of that when it's right under the work piece. Smaller lathe has a smaller carriage, so a 10" swing might only lose an inch from the carriage, while the 15" industrial might lose three. (I know those numbers may not be realistic, just kind of making a rough example.)

If I'm looking at the correct book, is it true that the 1914 printing of that South Bend book really is THAT good? Amazing.

 

[British Steel]

Hi Gearhead,
Re swing over bed / carriage, spot on! some *really* interesting lathes have double cross-slides so a taper attachment (another nice-to-have) moves the lower slide, the upper can still be used to put on a cut etc. - on my Holbrook this is why I lose almost 6" off the swing... Worth it, though, it has its Redeeming Features!

A measurement that doesn't often get enough attention is *weight*! Generally, the heavier it is, the more rigid, and the better the machine (says he with the 4400-pound lathe... NOT one to try moving down the basement stairs!) Also, motor power counts - usually it's marked on the motor plate, in industry an approximation is one cubic inch of steel per horsepower per minute with sharp high-speed-steel tools so it gives a good idea of how hard the machine can work. A small lathe could have as little as 1/3 horsepower (or 250W if it's in metric), larger bench lathe up to 1HP, industrial laves anywhere from 2HP (1500W) up.

If you consider industrial lathes (which can go for less than typical hobby lathes as people get frightened of the size and weight!), you may (likely will) happen upon 3-phase motors - these can be powerd at home with either a rotary convertor (basically some electrics wrapped around another, larger, 3-phase motor - they sit in the corner making a droning noise) or with a VFD (small box of electronics, generally quiet but can whine a bit at low motor speeds). 3-phase motors are smoother (which helps surface finish), more reliable, with a VFD their speed can be controlled with a simple rotary control - I like this combination

If you spot unfamiliar lathes on CL or wherever (I once bought a lathe after seeing a card in a grocery window!) www.lathes.co.uk has a wide coverage, quite deep for some of the makers - some are missing, but Tony who runs that site is always interested in good pics and info to add to his site

Dave H. (the other one)

 

[gearhead]

Many thanks, Dave, for the points on weight and motor power. I had thought to ask about that and forgotten. I was looking at one the other day that had a 1/6hp motor, and I had no idea if that was good/bad/didn't matter. As for the swing and carriage - haven't I read about gap-bed lathes that leave room for more swing? I thought I saw one of those for sale - gave the machine other three or six inches of swing or something like that. Might have been an Enco, but can't recall.

I like your point about people being scared away from purchasing full sized lathes for size and weight. That's exactly what I was thinking last night: "Woah! That's so big! How on earth am I going to justify buying that monstrosity?!" However, it seems as if I have the space in the basement, and that I will likely find far more redeeming qualities from a larger lathe long after I've gotten over the idea of its physical size.

Also, Dave, I probably wouldn't mind trying to turn out some motorcycle pieces at some point down the road. My first motorcycle arrived a few years back in the form of a '69 TR6 with a hardtail. Man, I could have spent a year making parts for that thing and still been wanting more! If you have pics or a site on some of your bike work, I would certainly enjoy seeing that. The last bike I had was a '76 R90S - 108mph on the Bonneville salt flats. Good times.

 

[ScrapMetal]

Yep, it's pretty much the exact same book. I think they released it in umpteen different editions over the years. All with slight "tweaks" to maybe change tables and such to more reflect the current production at the time. One copy is just as good as another from dozen or so that I've looked at.

I loaded a copy of it onto my server (at least it should be loaded by the time you read this :biggrin. It's 148MB and this server isn't the fastest but it'll get the job done: http://68.227.91.247/shovelhead/howtorunalathe.pdf

-Ron

 

[gearhead]

Yep, it's pretty much the exact same book. I think they released it in umpteen different editions over the years. All with slight "tweaks" to maybe change tables and such to more reflect the current production at the time. One copy is just as good as another from dozen or so that I've looked at.

I loaded a copy of it onto my server (at least it should be loaded by the time you read this :biggrin. It's 148MB and this server isn't the fastest but it'll get the job done: http://68.227.91.247/shovelhead/howtorunalathe.pdf

-Ron

Heyyyyyy, look at that! Thanks! There it is - all those questions I've been asking, answered! There's all the basic dimensional considerations, pics of the quick change gear box, the carriage, the ways, all the pieces, parts, oiling chart - everything! Well, not everything, but this is going to cover so much ground. Thanks again, Ron!

 

[GK1918]

One more Ron, Im not doing the Ford vs Chevy thing, they are all good, but I have to vote for a South Bend. A
9A which has quick change is affordable, two kids can bring it in your basement. Somewhere 1940 or so up. Im
lucky to own a 4 1/2 foot bed not so common. There is a flood of parts and acc. for these. It will make square
things round things pyramids crankshafts, you dont even need a drill press anything but a broken hart. Im not
saying there is nothing wrong with an Atlas or others but south bends are like Model A Ford they make everything
for those. my pennies worth

 

[gearhead]

One more Ron, Im not doing the Ford vs Chevy thing, they are all good, but I have to vote for a South Bend. A
9A which has quick change is affordable, two kids can bring it in your basement. Somewhere 1940 or so up. Im
lucky to own a 4 1/2 foot bed not so common. There is a flood of parts and acc. for these. It will make square
things round things pyramids crankshafts, you dont even need a drill press anything but a broken hart. Im not
saying there is nothing wrong with an Atlas or others but south bends are like Model A Ford they make everything
for those. my pennies worth

I'm a Pontiac man who owns a Chevy, so you'll not get any argument out of me, especially since I'm from Indiana, so the SB feels like the "hometown favorite." Thanks for the tips on the 9A model. In my looking, the SBs seem to be pretty affordable, and in what I have read about their history they have been around a long time and have a good service history. Seems, as you say, that parts and tools are readily available. I will keep reading and keep looking and see what more I can learn. (Oh, and my dad has a Model T, not an A, but I won't argue the point! You can fix those darn things with a ball pein hammer and baling wire - oh, and a nickel, just in case you need a shim!)