Russian/Soviet Straight Edges?

[David2011]

Pontiac,
How was the quality of the chamber reamer from Ukraine?
I'm boring and relining a vintage .22 falling block rifle (Rev-O-Noc). The barrel liner isn't chambered. Chamber reamers out of Ukraine are 1/2 the cost of them here. How did they work out for you?

Joe

Originally I started to reply regarding rentals but I looked at current pricing. Renting has gotten so expensive that buying a Ukranian reamer is about the same price as renting and return shipping. Go/No Go gauges are kind of pricey, though. If you like machining to close tolerances you could make your own. They're much simpler than bottlenecked cartridge gauges.

There is a discussion on Rimfire Central regarding SAAMI 22 LR chamber specs. Go/No Go gauges seem to rent for around $8 plus shipping but sell for $70/set or more.

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/saami-22-lr-chamber-dimension-and-ramifications.80166/

"A Sporting .22 LR chamber is .8751 in length from the bottom of the rim to the top of the throat compared to .6876 for the Match chamber. The length of the Sporting chamber from the top of the rim to the start of throat is .818 compared to .643.

The Sporting chamber at the base of the cartridge is .2307 wide compared to .2267 for the Match chamber. At the throat the dimension of the Sporting chamber is .227 versus .2248 for the Match chamber.

Rim thickness in both is .043 min and .051 maximum."

Best of luck with the Rev-O-Noc.

 

[pontiac428]

I bought my 22 rimfire CIP gauges from ZPV Czech, along with a 6mmBR finishing reamer. That stuff is on par with Manson or PTG. Incredibly good. The Ukraine reamer I haven't run yet, but the finish is very good. I am confident in the quality. I have two Ukrainian taper reamers too, if it has any bearing on the discussion, that have proven to be fine tools with sound metallurgy that have held up to spindle bore reaming and are much to my satisfaction. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase eastern bloc precision parts and tools. I have a Soviet-era Czech bevel gauge that makes Starrett look like it comes from China. When they want to do precision, even during the cold war, they really would do precision. Even Bison started out as a communist factory (Prazow) that was one of the first CNC grinding factories in the world. They put up a satellite and a man in space- who did a space walk, remember- before America did, and they built the first 100 megaton nuclear warhead, so they weren't all drunk on vodka. They had/have a handle on precision tools.

 

[sign216]

David,
Thanks for the report and link. As far as go/no-go gauges, I was was going to do it shade tree style; chamber to fit representative rounds from my favorite brands of ammo.

Pontiac,
Good to hear that the Ukrainian stuff is okay. Some "bubbas" were saying to chamber w a straight drill (#1 if I remember) but I'd rather spend a little to get a piloted reamer.

 

[pontiac428]

David,
Thanks for the report and link. As far as go/no-go gauges, I was was going to do it shade tree style; chamber to fit representative rounds from my favorite brands of ammo.

Pontiac,
Good to hear that the Ukrainian stuff is okay. Some "bubbas" were saying to chamber w a straight drill (#1 if I remember) but I'd rather spend a little to get a piloted reamer.

There is a time and a place for alternative methods of cutting chambers, but with the 22LR I agree you want a reamer. The throating and the angles/dimensions at the case mouth in the chamber have a significant impact on performance. Headspace/rim thickness is yet another dimension on top of that. My experience is inline with the thread you posted, the more serious you get about tightening the chamber, the more critical ammo selection gets. My best rimfire barrel is unbelievably sensitive about the ammo box label. During COVID, I had to give up because the stuff it liked wasn't anywhere to be seen, it it's just now available in enough variety to find something it likes again. Factory barrels shoot whatever, but what prints on the target is night and day against barrels with racier chambers. That's the nature of things when the shooter can't load the ammo, you have to take what you can sort out of the mass produced offerings. IMHO, the Europeans have more expertise in rimfire precision- they are match guns to them. American rimfires are kids guns and plinkers. Given the choice, for an accurate rifle I'd go with CIP over SAAMI for both reamers and ammo. In broad strokes, I see CIP as a spec for manufacturers to build to, and SAAMI as a range to fall within, if you follow my line.

 

[sign216]

Pontiac,
Re Europe having more precise 22 firearms, their history is different over there. I remember as a teenager, walking afield alone w a 22 just to target shoot for fun. I don't think kids get rifles in Europe without supervision and all that. It's a different environment.

 

[pontiac428]

Pontiac,
Re Europe having more precise 22 firearms, their history is different over there. I remember as a teenager, walking afield alone w a 22 just to target shoot for fun. I don't think kids get rifles in Europe without supervision and all that. It's a different environment.

Agreed, and the production tolerances of the guns and ammo in rimfire reflect that exactly. It's not about who can make things better, precision is attainable anywhere people pursue it. The customer's purposes and expectations are different between the two consumer bases, and that's why one is more suited to target/competition and the other is geared toward low cost/high volume blasting. Superiority has nothing to do with it.

 

[sign216]

This rifle is typical to America. A falling block .22, made about 100+ yrs ago by Hopkins Allen for the hardware stores Rev-O-Noc (back when people bought firearms from the local hardware store). It's an economical single shot, for kids or people with tight budgets, but it's actually well made, especially given how cheap some of those single shot .22s were. Here's a representative photo:

 

[pontiac428]

This rifle is typical to America. A falling block .22, made about 100+ yrs ago by Hopkins Allen for the hardware stores Rev-O-Noc (back when people bought firearms from the local hardware store). It's an economical single shot, for kids or people with tight budgets, but it's actually well made, especially given how cheap some of those single shot .22s were. Here's a representative photo:

View attachment 488859

Oh, I see, just like you said up above. My bad. If you're relining that, then a standard SAAMI chamber reamer is most suitable, I'd avoid any tight bentz or match patterns. You'd probably want it to shoot anything you feed it. I got off track with the introduction of different chambers to the discussion and missed the point that you were relining an antique.

 

[sign216]

Pontiac, no harm no foul. Yes, this isn't a biathlon match rifle. It'll be fun to bring it back to life.

I'll order the Ukrainian chamber reamer and work from there.

Joe

 

[sign216]

....., then a standard SAAMI chamber reamer is most suitable, I'd avoid any tight bentz or match patterns. You'd probably want it to shoot anything you feed it.

Pontiac,
I ordered a chamber reamer from Ukraine. I suspect it'll give Euro dimensions (match size?), which might be tighter than American general purpose size. After making the chamber I'll check it against a variety of Amer. ammo, like you said.