POLL......What do you think of Starrett?

[fitterman1]

That sucks. Not joking here, I wonder if they would take it back? I'm thinking it was Warped from the beginning. Even if it wasn't something like that should never warp. If not, could you maybe lapp it?

I doubt whether they would take it back, the warpage is diagonally across the two ends, ie corner to corner. I found it odd that it did this, so I'm assuming it stress relieved itself after machining. Made of cast iron which does warp, especially long and narrow objects, I'd say there was a short lead time between casting and machining.
Yes,I will attempt scraping the base rather than lapping. The difficult part is mating the flats to the involute curves to maintain relationship with the bubble.

 

[Green Frog]

All of my Starrett stuff is at least 25-30 years old at minimum, and if cared for and used properly it will be ready for my grand nephews to use when they inherit it (they are 8 and 10 now.) The only "new" Starrett items I've bought in the last 5 years were some pin punches that were seconds I bought at a gun show... they're pin punches, so I only expect so much!

Froggie

 

[Herbert]

Two weeks ago I sent my 196B1, back plunger in for repair at their direction. The plunger was sticking and I thought it should be looked at by the manufacturer. I heard nothing back so contacted them yesterday. They responded, said they had the indicator and would get back to me in the next week with an estimate. Not 10 minutes later I got another message with a bill in the $70.00+ area with another tax of some $4.00 along with an additional $10.00 return shipping. How is that possible, not checked and then this huge amount some 10 minutes later. They didn't check it, they gave me their "dog and pony" quote which probably goes to many others and I know all they will do is lubricate the plunger which I could do without them. Point is, they are not better or worse then most industry today. In my case;...gave an explanation of my resentment to their tactic and gave them permission to deposit the indicator where it won't get hurt in the future. In my opinion, no more Starrett. To many other choices now who don't exist by their Name-Brand reputation of long ago.

 

[Downunder Bob]

I am old, too, and so are my nice old tools, Starrett, B & S, Lufkin, Union Tool, and others. I got them much more recently from the estates of other geezers who passed on or gave it up, cleaned them up, checked and calibrated them, and put them back to work. I find that a win, win for everyone. Seriously, I find the old tools bearing the names or initials of men who have passed on to have much more soul than tools bought new, no matter how expensive or shiny or how 'top brand' they might be considered by others. I smile more when I pick up the well used old tools, and think about those old boys...

If I was an apprentice I would also look for used tools. Nothing says novice more than shiny new tools in pristine boxes that do not show any usage.

As another older guy, I acquired a few nice tools when I was an apprentice 1960 to 66. a mixture of Moore & Wright and Starrett. i still have them, but have been unused for the last 40 years, The micrometer needs dismantling and cleaning, the oil has dried up, Otherwise they are in excellent condition.

 

[ewkearns]

Year, 1977:

Mitutoyo Combitest $44.00

Starrett Last Word $95.50

Nothing has really changed.....

 

[Ken Mach]

I haven't bought a New Starret tool in the last 10 years or so but when I was buying tools during my career the drop off in quality of Starret tools became quite noticeable. I assume it was their attempt to compete with cheaper import tools. The same is true for Mitutoyo.

 

[Bob Korves]

I have quite a few Starrett tools. None of them were bought new. Same with the B & S stuff, and the Lufkin stuff. Same with my machines. Most all of them are over 30 years old. I am not beholding to any manufacturer or politician. If anybody chooses to put their nice old tools in the scrap metal bin and buy some new and mostly inferior ones to prop up the economy and businesses who cannot figure out how to achieve and maintain success, I support your right to do so. Just please let me 'recycle' your 'scrap metal.'

 

[Nogoingback]

I have had just about zero luck buying "quality Chinese tools". I pay the higher price, but get the same crap shoot chance of getting a good product. Don't get me wrong, some of the Chinese tools have been quite nice, but not due to what I paid for them or where I bought them, only luck of the draw, as near as I can tell. I am pretty sure that the reason is that quality control and quality assurance are not part of the process in China, at least not on the types of stuff we buy. Everything that makes it down the assembly line WILL go in a box and get sold. It would be nice if all that could change, they would be well accepted if that happened. The savings on labor costs for their products more than makes up for the boat ride here. Putting a bit into QC and QA could make them highly regarded, wildly successful, and taken seriously.

There are two problems here. There's nothing anyone can do about the huge difference in wages between Third World Countries and the USA. It's just a fact. But when US companies like Starrett and Jacobs shift production
to those countries, they don't have to cheapen their products. With training and decent process controls, they can save money and still make stuff overseas as good as what they made here. If they did that, everyone would grumble
about the loss of American jobs, but their reputation would remain intact and we would still buy their stuff. But when they cut the quality, that opens the door for competitors of all kinds. Look at what Mitutoyo has done. They
build their tools in Asia, but they seem to keep their quality up, and as a result they have a good reputation, (and they sell lots of tools to people that used to buy Starrett). Apple builds their stuff in China, but they make sure the quality stays high as well. The problem really comes down to the business school/bean counter mentality that has no regard for quality, just numbers. Reminds me of the definition of an accountant: Someone that knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing. (With apologies to any accountants that
might be reading this...).

 

[Bob Korves]

There are two problems here. There's nothing anyone can do about the huge difference in wages between Third World Countries and the USA. It's just a fact. But when US companies like Starrett and Jacobs shift production
to those countries, they don't have to cheapen their products. With training and decent process controls, they can save money and still make stuff overseas as good as what they made here. If they did that, everyone would grumble
about the loss of American jobs, but their reputation would remain intact and we would still buy their stuff. But when they cut the quality, that opens the door for competitors of all kinds. Look at what Mitutoyo has done. They
build their tools in Asia, but they seem to keep their quality up, and as a result they have a good reputation, (and they sell lots of tools to people that used to buy Starrett). Apple builds their stuff in China, but they make sure the quality stays high as well. The problem really comes down to the business school/bean counter mentality that has no regard for quality, just numbers. Reminds me of the definition of an accountant: Someone that knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing. (With apologies to any accountants that
might be reading this...).

Very good comments.

 

[markso125]

Mitutoyo has always been Asian, personally I have never been impressed with any of their tools especially their dial calipers (I have an 8" Mitutoyo dial caliper it was cheap I needed one). I must admit I kind of walked into Mitutoyo with a bad attitude, first shop I worked in it is a pretty good size job shop, I packed all of my tools in to the building, most of them were pawn shop tools or estate sale tools. The guy that hired me asked me if I had any Mitutoyos in my tool box, I said I had a few and his response was "Take them home we don't make scrap parts here" He was a little old man ( well old to me at the time) In a blue shop coat that kept all of his tools in a Gerstner and had been machining since the Korean war.
I have had to use Mitutoyos for years depending on the company, most of the ISO 9001/ AS9100 certified companies provided their own tools because they could keep track of them and maintain constant calibration to meet ISO standards. The large companies would buy Mitutoyos because they were cheaper then the Brown & Sharpe/ Starrett counterparts and they were on the traceable manufacturers list so from a bean counters perspective it is a better choice when you are buying 100+ micrometers at a time to buy the ones that are 5% cheaper. Also and somewhat ironically in my dealings several of those companies I have had the pleasure to work for have banned digital gauges for the simple fact it is to easy to accidently rezero the readout and make bad parts. When your average part is $1000+ USD and you find you scrap out 20+ parts a month because someone re-zeroed the micrometer .005 off of zero and they ran 10 parts before they checked it again, yes even old machinists made this mistake.

That being said, I do have new Starrett micrometers in my classroom, and I have old Starrett micrometers in my toolbox, I like my old micrometers a lot better, not because the quality, because the quality is just as good between the two, I like the older design better then the new ones, I know why they changed designs because it is cheaper/easier to produce. That being said, the same quality is there, between the two, they still have the same weight and feel just as rigid. I have a set of Mitutoyos and a set of Fowlers in my classroom and the Fowlers are exactly the same as the HF ones you can run down and buy, they even come in the same plastic case, they just have a premium price over the HF ones. The Mitutoyo micrometers still have the same stupid plastic spindle lock that always gets broken off, and the same craptacular ratchet mechanism, they are not brand new, they are about 4 years old, but the new ones you look up in the tool supply are the same as the old ones. I have seen the same problem in Mitutoyos I have for years, its kind of sad when you buy a dial caliper from them and it comes with a dial reset tool in the box because it will loose accuracy.

But I think it is what you are comfortable with, I use Starrett micrometers, Hexagon metrology calipers and finger indicators (hexagon owns Brown & Sharpe, Eatalon, Interapid, Tesa and some others). A lot of it is the feel of it. if you don't like the feel when you pick up the tool you wont like the tool no matter how high quality it is. Look at Brown & Sharpe micrometers, they are great micrometers, maintain good accuracy and are well built, but I hate the feel of them so I wont buy them.