PM Matthews Taiwanese Mills' Quality

I'd say these are questions that you should bring up with PM before you buy.

Every product is built to a price point, and machines built for hobbyists are no exception. You say you're not interested in other vendors so I won't get into why I'd buy a Wells Index if price and space were no object. But, the reason why Bridgeport is so well known isn't because they built the "best" machines. It's because they offered a good value for the money and production shops like to standardize machinery to maximize uptime.
They also presumably had really good salesmen.

I only own old machine tools, and despite my last name I don't have any connection to PM. I will say though, the last thread I was involved with that involved a PM machine, myself and many others were wrong about the root cause of the owner's problem. When the OP did what the PM tech first suggested the problem was resolved.

One of the great things about the hobby-machinist is that we try really hard to get folks making stuff with whatever tools they can get their hands on. The single biggest thing that has impressed me about PM is that they seem to have a good business selling to a very niche market that's saturated with low cost items. Having run a small business I can say that's no small feat.

I thank them for their support of this forum, which I also support, and am fairly sure you will be happy with whatever mill you end up with.

John
 
matthewsx said:
why I'd buy a Wells Index if price and space were no object.
Click to expand...
Price and space are always an object. Especially at my age. I've already gone the restoration route w/ a Delta drill press made in '34, a much newer Unisaw, two motorcycles, etc. Now, I'd rather learn how to use the machine rather than restore one, and make stuff I want to make. Having made do with my HF toy, anything has to be better but I've managed with it. I expect a better, somewhat larger mill will expand my envelope...so to speak.
 
ChazzC said:
Sorry: “QMT?”

My apologies, @Geswearf for going OT
Click to expand...
Quality Machine Tools seems to be part of Precision Matthews Corporation's name. I'm not sure if this is so, since the PM website only lists the company as Precision Matthews Machinery Company, and that in their copyright declaration. It's amazing how many websites do not give full contact info for the company - Name, corporate address, phone numbers, etc.

However....https://www.machinetools.com/en/com...e-tools-slash-precision-matthews-machinery-co
 
Geswearf said:
I don't know if Bridgeports were the best mills in their day...and the most expensive to buy. In fact, the term Bridgeport mill seems to have become common usage for a type of milling machine, much like band aid covers all adhesive bandages, and kleenex is used for all paper tissues. Perhaps it was unfair to compare the best (if Bridgeport was on top) to relatively inexpensive Taiwanese mills but the question was legitimate. The few Bport mills that I've seen look to be quite complex and the question still stands. Did these have manufacturing problems or was quality control back then far far better than it is today? It is possible we don't have enough members on this website who were young machinists back when factories bought new Bports to be able to answer this question.
Click to expand...
Precision Matthews is serving the hobbyist and home shop market. They have a good product at the price point, and by all accounts have good customer service as well. Bad machines undoubtedly sneak through on occasion. They helped me adjust my tachometer pickup to work correctly and happily sent me a new control board when mine died. I got a lot of machine for my $3000.

But the smallest and cheapest mill a factory would consider buying these days is a mid-range Tormach for $30000, and realistically they'd go for a Haas which costs twice that or more. It's a different market with different expectations.
 
Geswearf said:
I've written about my interest in PM benchtop mills. One thing about them that seems to be striking, is the number of issues with the smaller mills that have been mentioned here. Sure, if a buyer has a problem and is familiar with this website he is going to describe the problem in hopes of a quick solution. I've noticed there seems to have been a significant number of issues compared to the number of guys who proudly post about receiving a PM mill or anticipating the arrival of their new 'baby'. It would be one thing if there were only a few complaints and thousands of these mills being sold, but at least on this website, I think the number of factory mistakes compared to the number of mills sold is a significant percentage. I'm distinguishing between shipping damage, which has not really been an issue and defective parts.

I will acknowledge that I'm impressed with PM's willingness to work with the owners to resolve their issues.

Did full size Bridgeport (and quality clones) have these problems? Is this a sign of manufacturing today (i.e. spotty quality control).

Any other comments?
Click to expand...
Any time purchased a Taiwanese or Chinese equipment I know I will have finished the tool.
The mill have now I had do three thing to make good mill.
A torque bar, fill the column with concrete and a quill feed.
Now very good small mill.
Later I lower the speed for larger cutters.

The lathe I just purchased need a carriage lock also a few pisces tooling Aloris tool post , Steady rest , 4 jaw and carriage stop.
Now it is a nice lathe.

I am going to add a follower rest, extend cross slide and tapper attachment

Dave
 
Geswearf said:
I was not complaining, merely observing that the factory makes mistakes, which is imo, not PM's fault. A quick recall without going back to refresh my memory, one guy had an extensive thread about his quill. The interior taper was not machined properly, and PM rectified that, after (he bought a $500+ precision gage bar and) described the problem. A second owner showed a picture of a quill with a gouge on a shoulder due to a screw that had been tightened and someone else here commented the machining looked about as good as a student machinist's first effort on a lathe (my paraphrase - btw, the owner solved the rough feeling travel of the quill by stoning the upset steel of the quill). I think someone else had a minor problem with his quill, too. In all of the cases, it was either easy to rectify the problem or PM stepped up promptly. I noted that in my first post above, and I am happy to know that and will probably buy a machine from PM. There do seem to be a few defensive comments here about PM when the factory makes mistakes, but this doesn't speak to the issue at hand. If the factory makes mistakes, that is not PM's fault, nor does making fewer errors than everyone else absolve them from making those errors. Do two wrongs make a right?

I'm well aware that unhappy customers are more prone to writing negative reviews, and I seek them out on other websites. It is easy to differentiate unrealistic expectations from real problems, and I've not seen anyone writing a thread here who was surprised his purchase was not as expected.

I've not been aware that PM sells thousands of benchtop mills in a year. I care not about full size knee mills or lathes, i(n their total sales) since I'm not looking to purchase them, and I've not even read many threads here about those machines let alone problems with them. The impression I've gotten - eroneous or correct - is that guys buying a PM benchtop mill come here to read about them and often post they are anxiously awaiting delivery. If those same guys have teething problems with their new toy, many write here first for help and then turn to PM. Were it the other way 'round, we would never hear about it because PM's customer service is so good. Nobody in any of the threads I've read has said PM abandoned them, ignored their pleas for help, or let them grow old and gray waiting on the phone (or older and grayer, if you are there already).

I don't know if Bridgeports were the best mills in their day...and the most expensive to buy. In fact, the term Bridgeport mill seems to have become common usage for a type of milling machine, much like band aid covers all adhesive bandages, and kleenex is used for all paper tissues. Perhaps it was unfair to compare the best (if Bridgeport was on top) to relatively inexpensive Taiwanese mills but the question was legitimate. The few Bport mills that I've seen look to be quite complex and the question still stands. Did these have manufacturing problems or was quality control back then far far better than it is today? It is possible we don't have enough members on this website who were young machinists back when factories bought new Bports to be able to answer this question.

Again, I don't care about other vendors, other machines, other countries' brands. I'm looking at PM because they have good customer service, a decent product, and proximity and I'm not comparing them to anyone, except themselves. If their mills have a significant record of factory problems, I want to know this before I leap. Nothing more, nothing less.
Click to expand...
Comparing a Bridgeport to a PM mill isn't apples to apples, a new Bridgeport is a factor of 4 or 5 times the expense of a PM mill in particular the smaller mills.

I like the PM support folks, I can call them and ask questions or make suggestions concerning the machine and/or manuals and its like talking to someone you know personally, never have they acted put out nor been in a hurry to get rid of me and in discussions I have found that they own and use these same machines. Additionally, I like the fact that my machines have imperial lead screws.

There is always nicer stuff out there, say a Chevy vs. a BMW, the BMW might be nicer and possible faster and handle better but I drive in Houston traffic 90% of the time and need a dependable vehicle to get me from point A to point B and I need it to be something I can afford to buy and the Chevy will meet those requirements and make me happy.

I like my PM machines and have said as much many times, they operate at my level with good accuracy and allow me to do what I want/need to do.
 
verbotenwhisky said:
Comparing a Bridgeport to a PM mill isn't apples to apples, a new Bridgeport is a factor of 4 or 5 times the expense of a PM mill in particular the smaller mills.

I like the PM support folks, I can call them and ask questions or make suggestions concerning the machine and/or manuals and its like talking to someone you know personally, never have they acted put out nor been in a hurry to get rid of me and in discussions I have found that they own and use these same machines. Additionally, I like the fact that my machines have imperial lead screws.

There is always nicer stuff out there, say a Chevy vs. a BMW, the BMW might be nicer and possible faster and handle better but I drive in Houston traffic 90% of the time and need a dependable vehicle to get me from point A to point B and I need it to be something I can afford to buy and the Chevy will meet those requirements and make me happy.

I like my PM machines and have said as much many times, they operate at my level with good accuracy and allow me to do what I want/need to do.
Click to expand...
I have purchased a new Bridgeport in 1980 fully tool with DRO and chrome ways it was only $11,500.00 and 11 month wait.
Today thay is $42,500.
I would not do again.

Dave
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top