Offset key for Sherline Lathe Headstock - need one made

Forty Niner

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2015
Messages
276
I have measured and calculated that I can improve my headstock to tailstock alignment on my Sherline Lathe by using an offset key. I have unsuccessfully attempted to make one. Attached is a sketch of what I need. I need someone (with better tooling/better skills than I have) to make this key for me. If you are up to the challenge, please let me know what you would charge for this one off item.
 

Attachments

  • Offset Key for Sherline Lathe Headstock.pdf
    201 KB · Views: 124
Hi Forty Niner. It looks you are offsetting the headstock by .005". Not to change the intent of your post, but I wonder if you have tried inserting shim stock between the tailstock V-way and the bed to confirm this offset will improve your situation? Also, Sherline has an adjustable tailstock that you could dial in to match your headstock.

As to constructing the key, It appears most suited for someone with a surface grinder (which I don't have).
 
Hi Forty Niner. It looks you are offsetting the headstock by .005". Not to change the intent of your post, but I wonder if you have tried inserting shim stock between the tailstock V-way and the bed to confirm this offset will improve your situation? Also, Sherline has an adjustable tailstock that you could dial in to match your headstock.

As to constructing the key, It appears most suited for someone with a surface grinder (which I don't have).
Thanks for the thoughts and comment. The tailstock position cannot be moved in the right direction with a shimstock. Just so happens that the direction it needs to go would require removing material from the solid v-way.
Sherline has a thing that fits the tailstock that can be moved around to improve the alignment of the tailstock chuck. I have one. I don't like it, and it is only for the small drill chuck that comes on it. They have other fixtures for centers, etc. It is a pain to use.

I very carefully aligned my headstock to my lathe bed, both vertically and horizontally. Results (attaching a dial indicator to the carriage and running it back and forth) are like 0.0005" over a 5" piece of stock, then verifying with light cuts and measuring. With that careful alignment I measured the alignment to the tailstock and found the tailstock off by 0.005 (offset horizontally) or 0.010 total indicator reading. The tailstock is NOT adjustable, so I turned my attention to the headstock and figured that if I could move it over that 0.005" then I would have pretty good alignment. The headstock is keyed. So I "think" that I can align it with an offset key.
I tried making a key with my Sherline milling machine, but the vice doesn't hold the small part well enough for the accuracy I need.
 
Hey @Forty Niner, it sounds like you're dealing with the single worst defect found on a Sherline lathe - stupid non-adjustable tailstock on an otherwise really nice small lathe.

First, 0.0005" TIR on a 5" long rod is damned good. That is very close to zero and probably is so I would call your headstock alignment good. How did you measure the 0.005" of tailstock offset? Did you use a test bar? If not, I suggest you do so. That is the only way you're going to put a number to the offset.

So, assuming your tailstock alignment is really 0.005" off, what can you do?
  • Shift the headstock over with an offset key as you're proposing. The problem with this is that the stud used to lock the headstock down will be out of position so I'm not sure it will lock down properly. Might work but I'm not so sure.
  • Make the tailstock adjustable. I recall that Brazilian guy (can't remember his name) on Youtube cut the lower half off of his tailstock and attached it to an adjustable base. It seemed to work well for him.
  • Use their horrible adjustable live center. I have one and hated it.
  • Make an accurate live center and then find a position where it is the most accurate. I made an interchangeable tip live center that is really accurate - zero run out with the standard 60 degree tip and almost zero with an extended tip - that was as precise as I could make it. Then I did numerous cutting trials while turning/indexing the live center in the tailstock ram to find the position that had the least amount of run out. The arbor and internal taper of the tailstock ram has tolerances, too, and there is a position where the live center has the least amount of run out. I found that position, confirmed it in multiple trials, then punched a witness mark on the tailstock ram and the live center arbor. I just need to align those marks when I use the center and it works really well for me. Turns out that that ideal position took care of both my horizontal AND vertical tailstock offset so I got really, really lucky. The stock live center had 0.0008" TIR, which totally sucks for precision work and the adjustable live center is such a hassle to use that I just threw it in the drawer and haven't look at it since.
  • It just occurred to me to try indexing your OEM live center and use a test bar to find the position of minimal run out. That might just be enough.
  • Buy a bigger lathe with an adjustable tailstock! Sorry, I had to throw that one out there. I bought an Emco Super 11 CD lathe and it has an adjustable tailstock that allows precise alignment and I'm spoiled by it. I still use the Sherline lathe just as much but switch to the bigger lathe when the Sherline is too small for the part.
Sorry but that's all I can think of. If I was there with you, the first thing I would do is make an accurate test bar and measure the offset accurately. If you aren't sure how to make one, PM me and we can discuss it.
 
Hey Mike, you do understand the situation! To answer your question about how I determined the 0.005" of tailstock offset, here is what I did. After obtaining the very good headstock to lathe bed alignment, and verifying it by chucking a 5/8 brass bar stock to near zero runnout, I took very light cuts at positions near the chuck and at 5" plus out from the chuck.. Then measured and compared. (I obtain the initial alignment using a ground alignment bar that fits the Sherline morse taper in the headstock. I indicate back and forth from the carriage the vertical and horizontal.

Ok, then held a dial test indicator in the headstock and used it to indicate the tailstock. I indicated the OD and the ID of the tailstock. I also indicated a dead center in the tailstock. All readings indicated that the tailstock was positioned .005" off horizontally. It is indicates to be about 0.001" low. It is the horizontal offset that bothers me the most.

I have watched the Brazilian youtube video on making the tailstock adjustable. I have the Sherline tailstock chuck adapter, and I can center it. But, I really dislike using it and it does not help if I want to turn between centers. I don't want to buy another adapter just to be able to true up a tailstock center.

I have found that the A2Z company USED to make an adjustable tailstock using the Sherline milling machine tailstock. Problem is that A2Z is no more, otherwise I might try their solution.

Your point about the stud that is used to lock down the headstock might present a problem is noted. There is only about 0.003" clearance in the stud to headstock, but the stud does have some wiggle. The offset key may or may not work. Just thought I'd give it a try before butchering the tailstock?

I actually like your last suggestion quite a bit. How about selling me that nice Emco Super 11?

Thanks for your educated reply.
 
Hey Mike, you do understand the situation! To answer your question about how I determined the 0.005" of tailstock offset, here is what I did. After obtaining the very good headstock to lathe bed alignment, and verifying it by chucking a 5/8 brass bar stock to near zero runnout, I took very light cuts at positions near the chuck and at 5" plus out from the chuck.. Then measured and compared. (I obtain the initial alignment using a ground alignment bar that fits the Sherline morse taper in the headstock. I indicate back and forth from the carriage the vertical and horizontal.

Okay, I think I get it. You aligned the headstock initially with a Morse Taper ground test bar, then took two test cuts on either end of a brass bar and measured the difference, then adjusted it until you got 0.0005" over that run, correct? Not a bad way to go but let me tell you how I do it. Maybe you might try it.

I don't have a MT bar; I just center the headstock in the middle of the play the key allows. I use my 3 jaw chuck to chuck up a piece of 8mm ground rod from a discarded printer. This stuff cuts like butter so its good for test cutting. I use a piece that is about 6" long and put about 1.5" of it inside the chuck jaws and lock it down. This leaves about 4.5" sticking out. I then take a very sharp HSS square tool and take two 0.005" cuts from the end toward the chuck, stopping about 1/2" from the chuck. Then I crank up my speed to about 2500 rpm and take a 0.002 - 0.003" deep cut the entire length of the rod. This gives me a nice finish that I can measure accurately. I adjust the headstock until I get zero deviation at the end, the middle and near the chuck. It doesn't take long to do and the stock headstock key provides enough room to get the headstock aligned. I do it this way because I prefer a cutting test that aligns the headstock in the position in which it is used. I figure if I can cut a taper-free work piece, unsupported over a 4.5" length, then the headstock is aligned well enough for me. A 2-collar test is good for leveling but it is not so good for headstock alignment.

Ok, then held a dial test indicator in the headstock and used it to indicate the tailstock. I indicated the OD and the ID of the tailstock. I also indicated a dead center in the tailstock. All readings indicated that the tailstock was positioned .005" off horizontally. It is indicates to be about 0.001" low. It is the horizontal offset that bothers me the most.

Okay, I understand what you did but it is not accurate enough to quantify the tailstock offset. You need to make a test bar.

Find a piece of steel about 10-12" long. I prefer O-1 steel but any steel that will give you a decent finish will work. The OD should be about 3/4 - 1" OD and you will need a 4 jaw chuck and a steady rest. Chuck up the rod and dial it in near the chuck. You can temporarily support the far end with the steady rest until you get the part dialed in to zero at the chuck end. Once you do that, slide the steady rest up close to the chuck and bring the arms juuust into contact and lightly snug them down. The slide the steady rest toward the end and dial that end in to zero with the arms of the stead rest. Once done, face the end of the rod cleanly and center drill it; a sharp #2 center drill works. Now flip the part over and repeat to center drill the other end. You now have a short rod that is center-drilled on both ends that you can put between dead centers. Attach a lathe dog on one end and mount the work piece between centers. Move to the tailstock end and take two 0.005" deep skim cuts X about 1/2" long. Then take a 0.003" deep cut with a slow feed to produce a fine finish. You have just made a lathe test bar that is a precision instrument that you should treat with care. It will work on any lathe.

Now, mount the test bar back between centers but with the turned end toward the headstock. Use a dial indicator mounted in the tool post and be sure the tip is on center. You are contacting the work piece on the turned section of the rod. Preload the indicator by about 0.015" or so and zero the dial. Now, without moving the cross slide, back off the tailstock ram and flip the test rod end for end so that the turned part of the rod is on the tailstock end of the lathe. Tighten the tailstock ram just enough so that you can turn the test rod with a tiny bit of effort; this assures the centers are fully engaged but you aren't using enough pressure to bow the rod. Now lift the tip of the indicator away from the rod and move the saddle toward the tailstock until you can put the indicator tip on that turned section of the test rod and note the reading. The difference between the readings will be your tailstock offset. Do this several times to make sure the readings are repeatable. THEN you can decide on the magnitude of the problem you have, if you in fact do have one.

I have watched the Brazilian youtube video on making the tailstock adjustable. I have the Sherline tailstock chuck adapter, and I can center it. But, I really dislike using it and it does not help if I want to turn between centers. I don't want to buy another adapter just to be able to true up a tailstock center.

I have found that the A2Z company USED to make an adjustable tailstock using the Sherline milling machine tailstock. Problem is that A2Z is no more, otherwise I might try their solution.

Your point about the stud that is used to lock down the headstock might present a problem is noted. There is only about 0.003" clearance in the stud to headstock, but the stud does have some wiggle. The offset key may or may not work. Just thought I'd give it a try before butchering the tailstock?

Let's wait until you quantify your tailstock offset. If it is excessive then maybe we Sherline guys can brainstorm and figure out a solution that is acceptable to you.

How about selling me that nice Emco Super 11?

NO! :)
 
Have you checked that the lathe bed is level? .0005 isn't much error, you might be able to twist the bed enough to correct it.
 
Mikey, re your post no.6, an 8 mm rod sticking out 4,5'' is going to flex some no?
How do you remove flex from the equation with a doc of .002-3''? special grind?
 
A good HSS tool taking a skim cut of 0.003" deep won't flex the part much, especially if the nose radius is small. There is always some deflection when turning an unsupported part but printer rod is pretty soft and works fine for the purpose I cited. I've been doing this to check and align my headstock for many years and it works okay for me. Then again, I can grind a pretty good tool. I would not do this with a carbide tool.
 
Mikey, thanks for the detailed explanation of your procedures. I will do more tests/investigating using your tips.
 
Back
Top