New plinking gun

[Navy Chief]

There is no reason at all that a .243 could be used to hunt deer, they have taken thousands if not tens of thousands of them over the years. Same goes for larger caliber air rifles, no reason in the world they can't humanely take a deer. It is all about shot placement, not caliber. Larger caliber makes up for poor marksmanship by causing wound tract damage in poorly placed shots that allow for a successful kill in spite of the poor marksmanship.


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[george wilson]

Define larger caliber air guns. If you refer to those used by snipers in the 19th. C.,or the Lewis and Clark gun,I would agree.

 

[JPigg55]

By the way,Elmer Keith said that a minimum self defense caliber was a .357 magnum. He told a story about a sheriff ,mistakenly thinking a black cowboy for an outlaw,emptied his 9mm. Luger into the fellow. The cowboy said to him "Are you done shooting,white boy". Then he drew his .45 colt and killed the sheriff in one shot.
I'll stand with my blanket statement. If you are starving,I'd at least recommend a bow and proper arrows!

Didn't mean to start an argument.
There are many differing opinions on what constitutes a proper self defense weapon. However, it is a matter of fact and record that there are more people killed with a .22 each year than all other calibers.
In the study I mentioned, the .22 way out performed the 9 mm for 'One Shot Stops'.
While many people enjoy archery (my son being one), I think this is one of the least humane and slowest ways for an animal to die. I've never seen a deer drop dead from an arrow not to say it doesn't happen.

Here's a link to a YouTube video where a guy drops a 400# wild boar with a subsonic .22 round:

There are quite a few .22 and .25 cal PCP air rifles with more muzzle energy than a subsonic round from a .22 cal.
And yes, there are many larger caliber air guns as well, up to .50 cal I believe.
Oh BTW, take your micrometer and measure a .22 slug. Actual diameter is .223, yes the same as the M-16 as far as caliber.

 

[Navy Chief]

Define larger caliber air guns. If you refer to those used by snipers in the 19th. C.,or the Lewis and Clark gun,I would agree.

Any of the newer air rifles that fire .45, .30, and .357 bullets at speeds equal to or greater than their powder powered equivalent. As has been mentioned there is a video on YouTube of one of the .45 caliber air rifles penetrating 2 layers of 3/4 plywood at 600 yards. These are not your typical off the shelf daisy or crossman air rifles.

http://www.airgundepot.com/airforce-texan.html


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[JPigg55]

Any of the newer air rifles that fire .45, .30, and .357 bullets at speeds equal to or greater than their powder powered equivalent. As has been mentioned there is a video on YouTube of one of the .45 caliber air rifles penetrating 2 layers of 3/4 plywood at 600 yards. These are not your typical off the shelf daisy or crossman air rifles.
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Unless someone develops an air gun capable of 20,000 + psi, they will never achieve speeds greater than their gun powder equivalent calibers, but that wasn't the point.
You are correct, none of the PCP air guns are your typical off the shelf Daisy or Crossman air guns. Yes, I agree a standard firearm is a better tool for the job than an air rifle for game animals.
My point was that certain air rifles are fully capable for the effective use in hunting even larger game animals.

Let me give you a different scenario. Most would agree that a nail gun is far superior to a hammer for driving nails. It's faster, less chance of damage due to missing the nail head, greatly reduced chance of nail bending, requires less user energy, and easier to use in tight places.
Both are designed and fully capable of driving a nail, but by the all encompassing, blanket statement way of thinking, we should never use a hammer to drive a nail as it is far inferior for the purpose.
Anyone here thrown away all their hammers for air nailers ???

Maybe a bad example since a hammer is more versatile for use with many types of nails, but you should get my drift.
I mean a .30-06 is far superior to a .22 (air rifle or powder gun) in bullet velocity, mass, and killing power. Would a .30-06 be far better choice to ensure a clean, painless kill of a squirrel ??? ABSOLUTELY
But I wouldn't use a .30-06 to shoot squirrels. Could I ??? Yes. Would I ??? No.

 

[Robert LaLonde]

A typical PCP is designed (when properly tuned) such that the pressure in the reservoir prevents the tap valve from opening fully when the hammer strikes it. As more and more air is released the pressure drops and the valve opens further. This results in an increase in velocity as more air is released than with previous shots. Then as the pressure drops further the velocity starts to drop. If you graph the shots you get a bell curve in velocity numbers. Depending on the type of shooting you pick an area of the bell curve and count the shots. Typically you would graph pressure, velocity, and shot number. I've got a .25 Marauder that shoots 27-28 shots with 25.4 grain pellets from 3100 to 2200 with a velocity curve from 894 to 908 to 890 approximately. Most of the shots are 899-904. I spent quite a lot of time tuning and adjusting this rifle. Modified the valve for better flow characteristics, and did a lot of hammer and hammer spring modifications. If I recall that gives me about 45-46 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle. The rifle can be tuned for more power, but this is ideal for what I use it for. I can easily drop a collared dove (I eat them) at 75 yards with a body shot. It will shoot through smaller rodent vermin at upto 100 yards. By through I mean through. With an exit hole. Its very quiet (internally suppressed) and costs next to nothing to shoot. I can fill it with a hand pump (which I have), from a scuba or SCBA tank (I have two SCBA tanks) or from a SCUBA or SCBA compressor. I have two compressors that will fill to 4500 PSI for my SCBA tanks, and just picked up an old WWII aircraft compressor with a gas motor that will fill to around 3000 PSI.

For what I use it for around my house it is superior to a firearm. My neighbors never complain about gunfire, I am able to control vermin easily, and my garden is safe from predation by birds when the seedlings are coming up. Because it is not (by federal law) a firearm it does not require a tax stamp to suppress it.

I could tune it for more power and shoot solid bullets with it to almost rival the energy of a 22LR when fired from a rifle, but then it would no longer fit my needs. Pellets loose energy quickly when down range. The have a poor ballistic coefficient. They could carry 800 yards (if fired up in the air at the right angle), but they won't have much energy when they get there. A heavier bullet at the same speeds would be dangerous enough to cause injury or damage at that range. They will also carry further due to a superior ballistic coefficient. With more energy it will be louder. I would get significantly fewer shots.

I also have a lighter .177 marauder that is regulated, produces right around 20ft/lbs, and gets about 90 shots per fill. The longest kill I have made with this gun was at 94 yards measured on a gopher that poked his head out of his burrow near the canal bank at the pack edge of my property. (Gopher burrows can cause concrete canals to collapse. It was the gun I had handy when I saw him pushing dirt. That's the gun I hand to guests to target shoot with when I have company. They can shoot and shoot and shoot with that one.

Now before anybody gets all excited. Some states treat airguns like firearms, and some (most) municipalities treat any projectile firing device the same as a firearm. If you live in an incorporated city or town you might be cited for plinking (discharging a firearm) with your airgun in your backyard.

 

[george wilson]

Jpigg: I think we were discussing SHOOTING DEER with a pwllet rifle,rather than squirrels,weren't we?

 

[Robert LaLonde]

I CAN SHOOT DEER WITH AN AIR RIFLE. Drop them as easily as with a muzzle loader, but not approaching the ranges of a high power. AND I was giving an accurate and complete answer to this

1. Every shot will decrease the pressure reservoir pressure slightly. Is the some sort of regulator to provide a constant pressure for each shot? If not have you noticed any change in down range ballistics from first to 40th shot?

 

[JPigg55]

Jpigg: I think we were discussing SHOOTING DEER with a pwllet rifle,rather than squirrels,weren't we?

Ended up that way, got a bit off subject.
Originally, I was trying to answer a question as to how a PCP air gun maintains a fairly steady muzzle velocity without using a regulator.
When most people hear air rifle, they think of their childhood Red Rider BB gun or pump air rifle. These are definitely not for use in hunting anything beyond small critters.
PCP's are a different animal. Some should still only be used for small varmints. The bigger, more powerful ones still shoot pellets are referred to as pellet rifles.
If a pellet rifle is capable of shooting through a concrete block wall at 50 yards, it is powerful enough to kill a deer at that same range.
I move on as this really isn't pertinent to the OP or subsequent questions.

 

[ogberi]

Wow. Didn't expect to stir so much up by posting about a new plinker.

So let me clarify:
My wife and I live on 5 acres in rural Citrus County. We have chickens, quail, and turkeys. So we have to deal with pests. I don't use poison, don't like most traps, and using a stick is not a good option. So I shoot them. I enjoy plinking, so varminting is not a problem. A. 22 caliber pellet gun at around 1000 fps is plenty enough to drop a coyote with a shot to the brain pan. I know this, because I have done it.
Can the Armada kill a feral hog? Dunno, but I'd like to try. A deer? Dunno, but I'll pass on that.

It is absolutely effective on chipmunks, squirrels, rats, mice, raccoons and rabbits. so is a 22 rimfire shooting subsonic rounds. But the pellet gun is cheaper to feed, and a bit safer.
It's far from a toy, and a magnitude more dangerous than most pellet guns of yesteryear. Yet I still run into people who think of it as only suitable for shooting pop cans.

But the first time they hear the solid impact of a body shot on a rabbit and see it keel over stone dead instantly, they usually get the point that it is a serious gun. The hole *through* the rabbit hammers the point home.

For what I need it for, the Armada fits the bill to a T. Not the cheapest option, I admit. But still a fun, quiet, pants-crappingly accurate gun.

Now if Florida would only let us hunt Turkey with them...