Need some milling machine info

[killswitch505]

so....... I traded my Harley for a mill and lathe. I've had a lot success with my lathe not so much with my mill.... I'm basically using it as a big drill press. What books do y'all recommend? The mill seems frustrating I want to make gun smithing jigs but I find I've gotta make jigs to make jigs to mak jigs to make jigs. From what I'm seeing I'll be money a head if I install a dro but damn 800 bucks buys a lot of tooling seems to me if I'm wanting to drill 4 holes in a row I'm gonna need a dro.

 

[Silverbullet]

Do you do any lay out , or just do it. You can use indicators to get positions , edge finder to center up or locate a starting point . I'm old school and do layouts on the piece using dykem and squares and scribed, center punch hole marks. Set stops and use measuring blocks as spacers for hole set ups.
Watch some YouTube of Mr Pete , but he even uses the dro now, but he does use layout lines with red dykem to show how. There are some basic methods taught on there to by others .
Oh you can get China dro for around $280.00 for x y z three reader heads .

 

[British Steel]

Hi KS,
What SB said, careful layout and remember to always approach the positions in the same direction to allow for backlash if you're measuring using the dials - second nature on the lathe, but stumped me when I first got on a mill! For aligning with scribed and / or punched locations, a "sticky pin" or centre finder really helps, or if you're keen there are centring microscopes that fit on a stub into a collet (mine's by Moore Precision Tools, made in Japan, has a graticle with cross-hairs and concentric 0.001" circles - the idea should be familiar to any gun nut using similar!).

I've managed without a DRO so far, with careful layout and a keen eye, but I'm considering one for the new (to me) mill, it's 50+ years old and has some wear on leadscrews etc. - the Chinese ones work ok if they make it through the first month or three, and they're available with more accurate scales (to 0.001mm, a little less than half a tenth) For a Few Dollars More*... Also they have Useful Functions, like bolt circles, tool offsets, edge rounding etc. which can make life easier

Dave H. (the other one)

* Ding ding-a-ding ding-a-ding ding-a-ding diing

 

[killswitch505]

Silverbullet , so far I'm just kinda doing it but I've not done much just making whatever I need to do work. I sucks having a machine that's capable of doing to much. Being an electrician I've probably hooked up or worked on no less than 15 Half a million dollar plus CNC machines I can say I've met a bunch of machinists all are more or less just geared to their type of work mainly CNC. There is a local guy that's supposed to be a mill guru I'm trying to get some time with the guy. I work a super crazy job it's going to be tough to find time with the guy. As soon as I respond to this post I will check out Mr. Pete. I'll also check out China Dro. And see what I can find. Thank you for the reply.

Britishsteel, I'm going to order a set of collets today and I'm looking a Coaxial center finder that shars has for around 100 bucks. Also I need to get some squares to help with layout. Thank you for the reply

 

[British Steel]

The Centring scope looks like this (excuse the poor pics):





I tried to get a pic of the graticle, but my 'phone camera isn't up to the task! The one propping the 'scope up isn't up to anything

The grey section takes a spigot that goes into either a collet or the mill spindle, peer down the 'scope (which rotates with the spindle) while rotating the spindle and adjust the two silver knobs to get the graticle centred, then move mill table to centre on the feature you want to pick up. Quick, easy and accurate
I just looked on EvilBay, I was surprised how expensive they are... Mine came out of the skip at work

Coax centre finders (Indicators, e.g. the Blake or copies) are good (one's on my list) BUT they're really only good at picking up the centre of an existing feature (a bore, spigot or boss, f'rinstance) and not that useful when starting from scratch and needing to locate centres to drill etc.

Dave H. (the other one)

 

[killswitch505]

British Steel, I will most definitely check this out thanks again man once work settles down a bit I will probably be PM'ing you.

 

[jbolt]

I think of a DRO as a precision measuring tool. I cut my teeth is the early 80's counting turns and using indicators. I'll take a DRO any day.

I put quality where I think it needs it. My lathe has a higher quality DRO because this is where I do most of my high precision work.

I have a heavy duty drill press that doubles as a light duty mill. This has a Chinese DRO on it. I must say the inexpensive DRO's have come a long way over the years.

 

[Eddyde]

I agree with all above, to put it in my own words though;
1 A DRO while not an absolute necessity, is very helpful and for less than $400 for a quality Chinese unit, a no brainier imho. However, in order to fully know your machine you should learn how to position by counting turns and compensate for backlash, you'll also gain appreciation of what the DRO can do for you.
2 YouTube videos: Mr. Pete, Don Bailey Suburban tool and the MIT series on milling machines, are a great start.
3 The coax is nice but you can do with a wiggler and edge finder set for a lot less money, you should have and know how to use these anyway.
4 Layout is always good to do, especially when learning, it gives visual assurance and helps prevent errors.

 

[DaveD]

What kind of mill do you have?
What kind of vise is currently on it?
What other 'tooling' do you have for the mill?
I have a RF-45 clone, cost about $2k and in the last 5 years I have probably sunk another $2k into 'tooling' for it. Everybody seems to say your tooling expense will at least equal the machine cost. I can vouch for that.
Good vise
DRO PROS 3 axis dro
Horizontal power feed
Angle blocks
Collets
Fly cutters
Slitting saws and arbors
Crap load of cutting bits
Center finder
Angle gauges
Clamping set
123 blocks
Vise parallels, several sets/thicknesses
Small machine jacks
Etc.

Later you can get into indexers and rotary tables, coolant misters, etc.

Then there are all kinds of measuring devices. My go to are my 6" digital calipers

I have a laser centering device, just like a laser pointer, that I use to find centers/edges. Fits in a ⅜" collet. Cost about $100. Supposedly accurate to 1/1000" or better.

It all depends on the accuracy you want and how big/small your parts are.
I get most of my new tooling from places like Shars and a lot of stuff from EBay. There is so much stuff on EBay that it takes some time to understand how to find what you want at the best price vs cost.

Good luck in your pursuit. Just keep asking questions. YouTube has all kinds of stuff. I tend to watch professionals because I want to learn technique rather than something part specific.

 

[bob308]

when I was learning the tool making trade. we made all of our own tooling parallels.123 blocks. even our own boring bars. I made my own screw less vise .
I am teaching friend to run a mill. I have him making his own tooling and fixtures.

dro I have one mill a enco 8x42 with it on it is my big shop 25 mi. from home. at home I have a clausing 8520. that gets used the most. on that mill I have a b&s number 21 vise.
I do not have a dro on my horizontal mill or any of my lathes or my surface grinder.