Need help- Given some CNC stuff and I have NO clue

[silverforgestudio]

Was chatting with a scrapper local to me who I buy aluminum from for casting yesterday... mentioned I wanted to "get into" CNC stuff but would have to probably build it...(Why not- I have a foundry, naievty and enough super powered ignorance to tackle anything!)

Well today he dropped off 3 boxes- said he got them from a warehouse and didnt have the heart to scrap them... And I could keep them...

Looking for help as I have NO clue what to do with these things- are they even useable?

1- Galil DMC 1580 still in the box with a mfg date of 2004

2- Two "Advanced Motion Controls" Brushless servo amplifiers

3- One "Advanced Motion Controls" Digiflex digital servo drive

I as well now am the proud owner of a box of various servos- multiple makers and sizes (I am assuming from the same place.)

SO the big question is was I just handed a CNC kit or will this thing be a Frankenstein of calamity and mis-matched thingees?

The Galil controller info says up to 8 axis control- I only know of 4... According to one auction site the Galil is $1300-$1700 USD (YIKES!) so I know its still used

Just need a bit of a hand in learning what the heck I just got- and if I need to keep, sell, hold, pass or scrap it before I go down the CNC rabbit hole...

Seriously- Any help appreciated!

Thanks in advance! Pics to follow when I get home!

 

[spumco]

You were handed parts of a CNC kit for black-belts.

The Galil is a high-end motion controller. It can control up to 8 axes (the '8' in the 1580). It can be programmed to run 'stand-alone' as it has on-board memory, but for your proposed application it can interface with a PC and motion control software. As to 8 axis - think robotics or CNC turning centers with twin turrets and a sub-spindle. You can get to 8 or more axis pretty quickly. Here's a link to the legacy documentation:

http://www.galilmc.com/motion-controllers/prior-generation/dmc-10x0dmc-15x0#info=0

Strongly suggest you PM Jim Dawson on this forum as I believe he's written CNC software for Galil products and may have some insight as to whether that 1580 is suitable for a beginner to fiddle with.

Other stuff (amplifiers & servo motors) - need more info. See if you can find part or model numbers on anything. Make a list and throw it up here. Sometimes stuff is compatible even if they aren't the same brand - just needs fiddling. The hive mind can probably help you decipher motor and amplifier codes - but that's something you should be trying to do yourself if you want to learn "CNC" stuff. Find the MFGR on the drive or motor, and internet search the model number. Get some datasheets and print them out and stick them with each device. You'll start learning what all the Greek terms are, and it'll help later if you try to unload them on Ebay or something.

You've just inherited Bugatti parts. Sadly, you don't have a Bugatti to put them on quite yet. You may, after some consultation and soul searching, decide to sell everything to fund a solid - but simpler - CNC dingus for the moment. If you want to keep the stuff and give it a go, plan on the next couple of years hiding in the basement glued to the internet cramming your brain with everything from PID loops to linear rails to EMI shielding.

Year three is figuring out how to actually machine stuff.

Actually, what you have is a staggeringly good start to taking a perfectly good industrial CNC mill or lathe with a dead or seriously obsolete control system and retrofitting a new motion control system. Buy an old 1980's or 90's VMC with dodgy/dead electronics and cram your stuff in it.

 

[JimDawson]

You got quite a haul there. I just looked up the current price of that DMC-1580....$3995. You can actually still buy them new, but they are about 2 generations out of date (early 90's), but back in the day it was top of the line. Documentation is available for download from Galil. The PC communication with the controller is RS232 or RS422. The latest Galil software and Win7/10 might communicate with the controller, not sure about that. If not, you might have to use WinXP or earlier and the older drivers to talk to it. The older comm drivers are still available for download.

As @spumco says, look up the data sheets for the servo drives. They should be compatible with the Galil controller. Now you just need some compatible motors to run and you almost have a complete system.

 

[silverforgestudio]

You got quite a haul there. I just looked up the current price of that DMC-1580....$3995. You can actually still buy them new, but they are about 2 generations out of date (early 90's),

OK Jim- thanks- the DMC I have has a sticker that says "DMC-1580-2004"


As for the paperwork- I will be downloading a LOT it seems- HA!

You were handed parts of a CNC kit for black-belts.

Ummmm- yup... looks like I need to get it in gear or get rid of it...

Strongly

suggest you PM Jim Dawson on this forum as I believe he's written CNC software for Galil products and may have some insight as to whether that 1580 is suitable for a beginner to fiddle with.

Jim jumped in thank goodness- but your suggestion was well met my friend- the "fiddle with" is right- Im not interested in lighting my hair on fire or jumping into the deep end without knowing what Im doing... or destroying it with a ham-handed hammer ummm- adjustment. (Im an analog guy trying to catch up- think Flinstones meets Jetsons')

Other stuff (amplifiers & servo motors) - need more info. See if you can find part or model numbers on anything. Make a list and throw it up here..

As for part numbers-Here is the Digital Servo Drive- https://dpk3n3gg92jwt.cloudfront.net/domains/amc/pdf/AMC_Datasheet_DQ111EE40A8BDC.pdf



And here is the Servo Amplifier: https://dpk3n3gg92jwt.cloudfront.net/domains/amc/pdf/AMC_Datasheet_BE25A20.pdf

plan on the next couple of years hiding in the basement glued to the internet cramming your brain with everything from PID loops to linear rails to EMI shielding.

Although I like the idea of having a high end controller- This I will have to seriously consider as I am trying to get multiple things done- and doesnt sound like this can be done "part-time" if I'm gonna do it- besides- the bigger question now is what IS missing and what will it cost to complete this Bugatti???

Buy an old 1980's or 90's VMC with dodgy/dead electronics and cram your stuff in it.

OK- What is a VMC?

Thanks for the help and stay tuned!

Jim- would you mind a PM or chat about the functionality and testing of this little monster?

 

[JimDawson]

We can communicate any way you want. It might be best here, that way everybody can see the progress and hopefully this will be an educational experience for all.

I'm surprised they anybody was ordering those in 2004, they were superseded by the 20x0 series mid 90's. Must have been a replacement for an existing system. Anyway, should be a fun project learning how to make use of it.

You'll need to download the drivers for your computer, what you download depends on your operating system. Let me know what computer you are using and I'll help you through that. While you're at it may as well get the documentation also. Both the command reference and the manual. Then the first order of business is to plug it in and see if it works, takes a standard computer cord. Then get communications established, you'll need a computer with a serial port or a USB-serial adaptor. That should keep you busy for about an hour or so.

The drive you show should work fine, at some point you'll need a motor to connect to the drive. I need to do a little reading, but I think that drive will run either a BLDC or a brushed DC servo motor. The Galil will also run stepper motor system if you want to go that route.

This should be fun

 

[spumco]

The first one appears to be a standard servo amplifier. Supplied with up to 80VDC from a power supply. 20A unit can drive a big-ish motor.

The second one, as Jim indicates, is a BLDC motor driver. Brushless DC motor (think big DC motor with a computer telling it how to spin instead of some brushes riding on a commutator)

I just happen to have a 3HP (ish) BLDC motor with a 5kRPM top end suitable for a smaller mill and no driver to go with it. Your driver indicates it can use hall sensors for commutation (timing device to make the motor spin properly) - pretty standard for BLDC motors. You decide to go down this path and I've got a spindle motor for you...

VMC - Vertical Machining Center. "CNC Mill" generally refers to, in hobby-level speak, a 3 or 4 axis mill with no major frills. A VMC refers to one of the big, professional CNC mills that have an automatic tool changer and a full enclosure, and some sort of industrial control system (Fanuc, Siemens, etc.). Hobby mills, with some exceptions, generally are controlled with a Windows or Linux PC. There are obviously exceptions to everything, but VMC means big heavy box with a powerful mill inside. Thousands of pounds, requiring 3-phase electricity.

Bigger questions:

What do you want to accomplish? Make stuff with a mill or lathe? What kind of stuff? How big, and made of what material?

Or learn about electronics and motion control?

 

[JimDawson]

Bigger questions:

What do you want to accomplish? Make stuff with a mill or lathe? What kind of stuff? How big, and made of what material?

Or learn about electronics and motion control?

Or both

 

[silverforgestudio]

We can communicate any way you want. It might be best here, that way everybody can see the progress and hopefully this will be an educational experience for all.

Thank you Jim. I may wind up parting this thing out if Im not able to handle its "robust-ness" or the learning curve so the biggest issue is testing it to see where I can learn/start from or decide its TOO much machine (Bugatti's arent made for the kiddie rides!)

The drive you show should work fine, at some point you'll need a motor to connect to the drive. I need to do a little reading, but I think that drive will run either a BLDC or a brushed DC servo motor. The Galil will also run stepper motor system if you want to go that route.

I was also given a box of servos- it was a total mix and match- Elcom was the one that stuck out... but these guys are LITTLE compared to what this Galil was supposed to be able to handle... makes me think these were in the same place- not the same machine (but I have NO idea as they were all from "Some warehouse I cleaned out" per the scrapper)

This should be fun

HA! It will be- I honestly thought they would be scrap (may still be if they are shorted out or dont work)... and I am always looking for a project (to go with the 30-40 OTHER projects that are around the shop)... Seriously- CNC has been an interest for me and I think this may be a good push/nudge to get it in gear. I am looking forward to this.

I just happen to have a 3HP (ish) BLDC motor with a 5kRPM top end suitable for a smaller mill and no driver to go with it. Your driver indicates it can use hall sensors for commutation (timing device to make the motor spin properly) - pretty standard for BLDC motors. You decide to go down this path and I've got a spindle motor for you...

Thanks- as this little monster grows I may take you up on that- but be advised- you're offering more Bugatti parts to a 3-year old- Let me catch up a bit and when we get to the working end (If it makes it that far) we can have that conversation... But it is DEFINITELY appreciated!

VMC - Vertical Machining Center.... VMC means big heavy box with a powerful mill inside. Thousands of pounds, requiring 3-phase electricity.

Yeah... about that.... not in my little garage- My city would LOVE to bring an inspector in when I blow the block transformer... HA! Not allowed to have 3 phase in my residental area... SAD- but true... I do have a VFD Im getting ready to learn about for a surface grinder... but no joy on the 3-phase. Im BARELY a hobby-ist (3-yr old, 2 jobs, SWMBO, Honey-do's and a demanding cat!) That being said: I love my garage time and the hobby of making things in silver and iron are fun!

Bigger questions: What do you want to accomplish?

-Im looking to learn a skillset that will put me into position to do "gig" work within 3-5 years for others (hey if youre gonna do it for yourself- may as well learn it well enough to do it for others! In all honesty I want to build a hobby and make things for folks to use.

Make stuff with a mill or lathe?

-Mill most definitely- But like all things- Im gonna have to learn those as well (Bought a Rockwell lathe that needs some love before I can play/learn/grow) and no Mill yet.

What kind of stuff?

My main hobbies: Knifemaking, Jewelry (casting and fabrication), Foundrywork (aluminum through Bronze).
-Believe it or not- carving wax models for investment casting so jewelry size... up to patterns for my foundry (largest pour to date is a 15 pound aluminum house plaque and most complex was a cored antique water-jacket for an older Farm-All) So honestly I cannot say what my MAIN goal is.... My wild ignorant mind wanted to know if it was an 8 axis couldnt that be TWO 4-axis machines? (one for small and one for large?)

How big, and made of what material?

-Materials for casting in silver are waxes- microcrystalline so not very hard- for foundry work I think Corian and plywood are my targets- Aluminum and ferrous metals for the knifemaking and wood and plastics as well.

Or learn about electronics and motion control?

I think they are BOTH part of the mix now- from my viewpoint I'm gonna have to learn a touch of both (or a LOT of both) to move down this path!

Clear as mud? HA! Hope you guys have a great day- apologies as I am off line for a few days of work (yeah- riiight, whats that!?) but be back for the weekend!

 

[JimDawson]

Thank you Jim. I may wind up parting this thing out if Im not able to handle its "robust-ness" or the learning curve so the biggest issue is testing it to see where I can learn/start from or decide its TOO much machine (Bugatti's arent made for the kiddie rides!)

It won't really be ''TOO much machine'' You'll just have the capacity to do things that the ''hobby class'' systems won't do.

I was also given a box of servos- it was a total mix and match- Elcom was the one that stuck out... but these guys are LITTLE compared to what this Galil was supposed to be able to handle... makes me think these were in the same place- not the same machine (but I have NO idea as they were all from "Some warehouse I cleaned out" per the scrapper)

We'll figure out what will work. I have used Galil motion controllers to control servos and steppers from about 40 watts up to 35 KW. It really doesn't care what it's connected to. I built a 3 axis dispensing machine a while back and you can pick up the machine and carry it off. Size is not really a factor.

HA! It will be- I honestly thought they would be scrap (may still be if they are shorted out or dont work)... and I am always looking for a project (to go with the 30-40 OTHER projects that are around the shop)... Seriously- CNC has been an interest for me and I think this may be a good push/nudge to get it in gear. I am looking forward to this.

Thanks- as this little monster grows I may take you up on that- but be advised- you're offering more Bugatti parts to a 3-year old- Let me catch up a bit and when we get to the working end (If it makes it that far) we can have that conversation... But it is DEFINITELY appreciated!

Whenever you have time to play with it.

-Mill most definitely- But like all things- Im gonna have to learn those as well (Bought a Rockwell lathe that needs some love before I can play/learn/grow) and no Mill yet.

.... My wild ignorant mind wanted to know if it was an 8 axis couldnt that be TWO 4-axis machines? (one for small and one for large?)

Theoretically you could run two different machines off of one card, might be an interesting excersize. Out in my shop I have one mill with 6 axis. But this is not as complex as it might seem. It has the normal X, Y, Z axis, plus the rotary, but add to that the spindle and the tool changer as axes. My lathe has 5 axes, X, Z, spindle, tool turret, and live tooling drive. Every motor that is connected to the controller is an axis.

-Materials for casting in silver are waxes- microcrystalline so not very hard- for foundry work I think Corian and plywood are my targets- Aluminum and ferrous metals for the knifemaking and wood and plastics as well.

I think they are BOTH part of the mix now- from my viewpoint I'm gonna have to learn a touch of both (or a LOT of both) to move down this path!

Clear as mud? HA! Hope you guys have a great day- apologies as I am off line for a few days of work (yeah- riiight, whats that!?) but be back for the weekend!

When you have time there will be a lot of help here.

 

[Karl_T]

I'll just weigh in as a second contact. I have lots of experience with all this equipment, but probably not as much as Jim. I've been doing it longer, but Jim tries harder ) I have built five Galil based CNC controls over the last twenty years, most of the work ten + years ago. before that, lots of work with antique commercial controls and the early stepper systems.

I know Camsoft (my control) does not support this old Galil hardware, so Jim's CNC software would be the only game in town. IMHO, the Mach efforts to use Galil was a complete bust. I will say setting up galil for the first time is quite the challenge. But you end up with a control far advanced over the hobby market stuff.