My new PM932M-PDF, the good, bad and ugly

[allischick]

Wow....is all that I can say. .005" on the table? :-(

Thanks for the information though! It's a huge help when researching machines.

 

[7milesup]

I don't know, it seems like that machine is nigh but a disaster, or at least it was. I would not have been happy.

I am sure that you will enjoy the machine once all the bugs are worked out.

 

[davidpbest]

Great post. More people should do posts like this. I agree that PM shouldn't have to deal with so many of these quality problems from their suppliers. I feel bad for Matt - he works very hard and provides good service, but a lot of this could be avoided with better QC at the supplier end. The paint and filler on these machines (even from Taiwan) is just terrible, which is why I stripped down my 935 mill and 1340 lathe to bare castings first thing, and did a proper body fill and repaint. DRO installations are often quick-and-dirty and overlook things like oiler locations or even carriage/compound locking bolts that need to be accessible. I have always elected to do my own DRO installs - it's not that hard to do right if you take some time to consider placement.

I'm curious what it costs to have the table ground flat, and if you had any issues finding someone local to do the work.

 

[C-Bag]

I agree that PM shouldn't have to deal with so many of these quality problems from their suppliers.

But the reality things no matter where they are made will happen. It's all about the support when stuff goes south.

I know of an instrument manufacturer who has the bulk of the instrument made in China they it's shipped to the US and a crew here finishes them. I don't know if that would work in this instance. But bottom line it's tough to QC an assembled machine tool.

You pays your money and ya takes your chances.

 

[Jake P]

I'm very apprehensive as to what has become of the Taiwanese QC as well in this covid situation. I guess there's a few of us who will find out in a few weeks when we get the next shipment of 1340GTs and 833s. Little doubt that Taiwan was affected as well. We will see just how much so.

 

[Winegrower]

Admittedly I am part of the generation of engineering management that shipped so many products and technologies to Asia…it’s foolish to say any of us had a choice, given the total economic environment.

What I know is that China is capable of the highest quality product at the highest volume production and lowest cost of any country. Every iPhone I have gotten has been literally flawless in execution. To accept sand in the gears, flaking paint, bad body filler, poor accessory installation, etc., is a management problem that can be solved, but has to be recognized as needing to be solved. It’s not enough to offer a replacement product that will have the same or worse or better distribution of issues, who knows?

I have taken many trips to Taiwan and China. They are not inherently sloppy, inept workers. They are, however, generally completely ignorant of what these things they make are, what they do, how they are used, and what is important to get right. If nobody tells and shows them, they will keep doing the same thing. If you show them, they will forget, as US workers do. Properly managed by customer and company leaders, they will produce good results.

All these problems I lay directly at the feet of PM and their supplier(s) management.

 

[akjeff]

I applaud the honest no holds barred review. This experience is why I choose to spend the time and money to just rehab old American or European iron, and be done with it. With careful shopping and research, a used circa 1978 Lagun, including shipping, and some repair work ( including a table re-grind ) by A&D Machine cost me about the new cost of an Asian knockoff, which would have required additional work to "make it right". While it took a good bit of homework and elbow grease, it was worth every penny, and drop of sweat.

 

[RebelJD]

Great post. More people should do posts like this. I agree that PM shouldn't have to deal with so many of these quality problems from their suppliers. I feel bad for Matt - he works very hard and provides good service, but a lot of this could be avoided with better QC at the supplier end. The paint and filler on these machines (even from Taiwan) is just terrible, which is why I stripped down my 935 mill and 1340 lathe to bare castings first thing, and did a proper body fill and repaint. DRO installations are often quick-and-dirty and overlook things like oiler locations or even carriage/compound locking bolts that need to be accessible. I have always elected to do my own DRO installs - it's not that hard to do right if you take some time to consider placement.

I'm curious what it costs to have the table ground flat, and if you had any issues finding someone local to do the work.

Wow, a complete repaint. I do a lot of car restoration so I know what that takes. I'd love to do that on mine but too many other priorities, right now. I actually thought the DRO scales were installed pretty good. The DRO mounting itself I think was a missing bushing or something. The shop I used to regrind the table charged $300. Precision Matthews refunded me quickly plus a few bucks for my labor. Thanks for your reply.
Jim

 

[RebelJD]

Admittedly I am part of the generation of engineering management that shipped so many products and technologies to Asia…it’s foolish to say any of us had a choice, given the total economic environment.

What I know is that China is capable of the highest quality product at the highest volume production and lowest cost of any country. Every iPhone I have gotten has been literally flawless in execution. To accept sand in the gears, flaking paint, bad body filler, poor accessory installation, etc., is a management problem that can be solved, but has to be recognized as needing to be solved. It’s not enough to offer a replacement product that will have the same or worse or better distribution of issues, who knows?

I have taken many trips to Taiwan and China. They are not inherently sloppy, inept workers. They are, however, generally completely ignorant of what these things they make are, what they do, how they are used, and what is important to get right. If nobody tells and shows them, they will keep doing the same thing. If you show them, they will forget, as US workers do. Properly managed by customer and company leaders, they will produce good results.

All these problems I lay directly at the feet of PM and their supplier(s) management.

I'm old enough to remember when Japan first became a low cost provider. Quality was poor and a lot of stuff was considered "Japanese Junk". Then they got quality religion and now many products from Japan are very good, especially when compared to China and India. Quality however is not something that is done in the end, its part of the whole process. I'm a retired engineer from a large company that adopted a six sigma quality mentality long ago. I'm not sure what Matt's business model is but without direct involvement in the entire process he is left with resolving problems with offering replacements etc. Hopefully he is reading these posts and can use them to help improve things.

I know there is always a debate about buying an import versus a used domestic machine but the prices for used machines like a Bridgeport in good condition are out of my range. Companies like Precision Matthews are filling a need for the hobby/low end market.

After spending some time tramming and adjusting my mill I have been able to machine some parts that have checked out well. I'm fairly new to machining so I'm going to start a new tread on my efforts and experiences in tramming and using the mill. I've learned some things but still have some questions that hopefully others can help with.

 

[Cletus]

Very well said! I'm an old electronics fart myself (industrial and medical), got into machining with a little Unimat SL when in my late teens and got some great work done on that thing (whole different story), but got serious into it about 17 years ago as an asset to my business. I bought Grizzly, Harbor-Freight and other select Asian manufactured equipment, knowing fully well a lot of tweaking would be necessary to bring it to some semblance of decent. Well, in all cases the TLC paid off in many ways, I really learned the machine from the inside out, did many mods and ended up with really great machines and at a very reasonable cost. My recent acquisition PM-935TS-3PH has really impressed me, out of the box it was just superb, all the accessories and mods were bolt-on uneventful and PM's support (a real person, with real answers is on the phone) IMHO is second to none, great company and great people to work with.
Yes, I hope Matt can achieve improving quality control across the board, but as you rightly said, that would need to be "part of the whole process".