Making an HPA probe

WobblyHand

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Being the stubborn guy that I am, I thought I could duplicate a high pressure air fill probe that I have. The probe needs to be capable of dealing with 350 bars of pressure, which when you think about it, is a heck of a lot. Designed something up in FreeCAD and thought I was good. Then I stared at the design and decided to make some changes. I was going to use a parting blade to form the o-ring grooves and thought better of it. I'll be making a rounded groove for the o-ring to reduce the chance of stress risers. I also changed some of the internal wall thicknesses to make them a little bit thicker.

First is V1.
GK1_probe.jpg
Then V2
GK1_probeV2.jpg
Not quite sure what to do with the o-ring depth at the moment. I'm going to have to play that by ear.

Decided to make this piece out of 1144 steel, rather than 303. Both machine pretty well. Anyways, this is what I have done so far.
Piece on the bottom is what I am trying to duplicate. The body is about 7mm and 8mm. I used some sharp MoMax to shave down the steel, taking small cuts to reduce the deflection. My tail stock is centered, sort of kind of, for larger pieces but at these diameters, it's not centered enough. So this is with the part sticking out in the breeze. (About 4:1 stickout). You can see the bur I raised when reducing the diameter to 6.95mm. Functionally, I don't think it matters, but I'll knock it down.
PXL_20240815_140427900.jpg
I managed to get it to fit the female Foster fitting very snugly so that's good. Like no wiggle at all.
PXL_20240815_180735003.jpg
Now I need to grind some rounded o-ring groovers. I designed it to be 0.9mm radius. Have some HSS that I will use. The o-rings are NBR90 1.5(CS) x 4(ID), pretty small. Not shown, but already done, is a 1" deep 3/32" diameter hole. Had some excitement with that. My first piece I broke a drill. This is the second piece. Once I used a known good new drill, and peck drilled, it was no problem. Besides messing up the turning, the last tough thing is drilling the cross hole. It's only 1mm in diameter. I'll attempt to mill a flat, and spot it, then attempt drilling the hole. I bought three drills... I hope I don't have to make this piece over again. I get the idea of doing the hard stuff first, but this hole is intimidating.
 
Parker Hannafin has several publications that discuss o-ring groove dimensions. Google will lead you to them.
Thanks for that. The people who originally designed this probe likely didn't follow the rules... But I will go check it out. Due to the rated pressure, 5145 PSI, it pays to be cautious. They say to use NBR90 because the NBR70 material will extrude due to the pressure. The 90 material is pretty stiff, so not much squish, which is why I said I may have to play it by ear. Definitely good to read up on the groove depth for adequate support and proper sealing.

BTW, the link doesn't work.
 
After digesting things a bit, I have come up with something like this. Still a bit uneasy about things as there's a lot of tradeoffs. Have to balance squish, available areas, and wall thickness. I have to make the form tool, so the smaller it gets, the harder it is to get it just right, simply due to tolerance. That 1.16mm wall thickness is concerning me, especially with 5
Screenshot 2024-08-16 at 10.43.56 AM.png
I'm going to do some more measurements on the OEM probe. The thing is, I don't know if the OEM is a good design or not. I've been assuming so, but that's not necessarily a prudent thing. There's about 20% squish, and some area to fill, but I need to calculate that out.
 
The nice thing about fill probes is that pressure is PSI (lbs PER square inch...). By keeping the square inches low, the pressure is effectively low(er). Not to say that one shouldn't err on the side of prudence, but that's why these things work, and how a measly o-ring is able to contain it.

What gun is this for?

GsT
 
Typical O ring design uses a more square slot with a slight radius at the corner because the cross section diameter of the O ring is not perfect and there needs to be a little room for it to squish into, especially important if the temperature changes. I would start with what the O-ring design books say. Stress concentrations are more of an issue with rotating parts, high cycle fatigue.
My very quick back of the envelope calculation suggests that 1 mm thick material could support something like 500 lb, not sure what area the pressure is acting on or the strength of the steel...
 
Key items here:
Make sure that your groove volume is bigger than your o-ring cross sectional area.
The extrusion gap (the space between the two parts that the O-ring is being pushed into) needs to be pretty small at 5ksi. Just a few thousandths per side.
You need to have a lead-in chamfer to compress the o-ring. 20 degrees is a good gentle angle.
Process compatible lube is your friend

Your full radius groove is unusual. I assume you are worried about tensile stresses in the part... leave room for the rubber: it does NOT change volume. Just shape!

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk
 
The nice thing about fill probes is that pressure is PSI (lbs PER square inch...). By keeping the square inches low, the pressure is effectively low(er). Not to say that one shouldn't err on the side of prudence, but that's why these things work, and how a measly o-ring is able to contain it.

What gun is this for?

GsT
Yes, I do appreciate the number of square inches are minimal. I revisited my numbers and I still don't like them yet. Not enough area for the squashed o-ring to occupy yet. I had to write a program to figure out some of this stuff, because I can't keep track of it all in my head. Had to look up geometry stuff that I never was any good at to begin with. These numbers are slightly off because I don't know how to calculate the effects of probe bore offset. Since it is only 0.025 mm, I'm not considering it. Before I go off doing anything - I have to check my geometry and equations!!!
Screenshot 2024-08-16 at 1.01.39 PM.png
13% squish area is available in this design. The 1.5mm CS o-ring is reduced in height 0.355 mm. That's about 24%. Not great for NBR90, but maybe it is ok. If I could get a little more squish area, I think I'd be good. Never thought I'd be thinking somewhat seriously about o-rings. Considering I knew nothing about them yesterday, this is a deep dive for me!

To answer your question, a 22 caliber Huben GK1. It's a hoot to fire. I don't want to leave it with anything in the magazine, (general safety) so you need to empty it each time. The 19 round mag is non-removable. And yeah, you can go through ammo pretty quick. Been using my cast 28 gr slugs in it so not too worried about feeding it. Have at least 300 more rounds before I need to think about loading up the casting pot again.
 
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