Mach 3 processor platform...

[Ray C]

OK... Finally got around to putting the controller platform together. I believe it should be adequate to run Mach III and when that is not in use, it will make a handy shop computer. I'll use this thread to talk about the controller and Mach III software and in a few days when the PM45 CNC mill actually arrives, I'll create another thread to show the uncrating and initial setup.

... The Mach III controller platform consists of:

Intel DN2800MT Atom Motherboard (Dual core, multi-threaded, 1.86 GHz), 4 GB Ram, 120GB SSD (Flash drive), TP-Link 150Mbps wireless adapter, Win 7 Home Premium 64 bit.

I don't remember where the enclosure came from but, they were $29 on Amazon. I've used this processor platform in a production product running Fedora 16 and hardware-wise, it's very strong. I know from personal experience, the onboard USB controller is very good. So far, it's running Win 7 very well; however, it took 4 hours to download and install the 138 initial upgrade packages after the base installation. During that time, the overall processor showed an average of 28% CPU utilization. It peaked at 3.9 GB of memory utilization.

The WiFi network adaptor is a USB dongle and will be covered by the front cover. I bought and installed fans but, they're really not necessary because the motherboard is only 12 Watts.



The perforated enclosure is almost completely open and there won't be a heat problem. Mach III installed without a problem but, it's not driving anything yet as the USB is not connected to anything.



... We'll see how this goes. It think it will be OK. I'm told Ethernet is a better way to control the motors but the PM-45 CNC comes setup for USB so, we'll go that route. Naturally, I plan to use a very good quality, shielded USB cable.

Stay tuned and pretty soon, I'll start another thread to show the actual mill setup.

Ray

 

[Rbeckett]

Ray,
Get with Steve (Jumps4) because he does a ton of stuff with Mach and has converted a number of machines and know a lot of trick and saves with that system. He is working on a fairly large project so it may take him a day to respond but he is my go to guy for that software and what hardware works good with it.

Bob

 

[jumps4]

hi Ray
if you start having problems with your setup and running certain software's suspect windows 7 64 bit first. I have helped a lot of people all over the world set up mach3 and their controllers and 64bit can be a nightmare. usb and Ethernet controllers do not use the internal cpu clock from the pc, instead they buffer the g-code to their own processor and memory . G-code is a text document and windows does not consider a common text document to be high priority. that should be fine except if windows decided at a given moment one of its internal operations should have higher priority like sending everything you are doing and using on the pc to itself over the internet connection your installing ( they say to improve the customer experience ). then the packets of code arrive to slow for the controllers processor and they loose sync and stop or just go nuts. also you may find that some of the cad and cam software's will not work in 64 bit also. smooth stepper itself says 64 bit either works great or won't work at all.
even the cad and cam software's will jump on the internet if the see any connection to keep themselves updated they say, but they stay connected and use processor speed and memory and can take priority away from mach3 to update..
Microsoft has not built a stable software since xp and the government and medical industry is fighting them to keep xp maintained into the future so they will not have to change their operating systems.
from what I have learned over the years working with mach3 ,doing anything else on a pc that is running a machine while the g-code is running is dangerous. the head on your zx45 weighs 300lb and can reach speeds of 200ipm with no problem screaming down towards your table or you.
XP is the preferred system for mach3 and everything else is a work around, may work, may not work, may not do everything right, worked yesterday wont work today. I read the yahoo mach3 site from the new owners of mach3 and the original author daily like the morning paper and I see it every day.
I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just where to look if something goes wrong.
happy chips
steve


added note: using any type of wireless controllers like keyboards ,mouse or hand held pendants are not advised, starting a drill or any other electrical device can send a false radio signal triggering mach3 to stop or move on it's own. my home phone interfered with my wireless internet and had to be replaced.

 

[Ray C]

Steve,

10-4. Now I have a favor to ask... Tell me what you really think of 64 bit Win 7? :lmao:

All kidding aside, I'll take that well under advisement and will keep a watchful eye. I did in-fact try to install XP on this machine since I still have a few licenses from a 5-pack that I purchased a long time ago. Sadly, it would not install properly on this Atom motherboard... Actually, XP installed OK but, it would not recognize the graphics chip and the Ethernet adapter was glitchy. The graphics would only run in 800x600 mode and Intel does not support an XP-32 bit driver. I got the latest network adapter driver from PC-Link and it still dropped the connection on & off. -That settles that...

BTW: Just to share a thought process... I intentionally installed Win7 Home and not the Professional or Enterprise version because, the latter versions have all kinds of crap and services that are totally not needed for this application. Hopefully, that will reduce the load on the CPU. Absolutely, I have no intention of running anything else when Mach is doing it's job. With a system at idle, the CPU utilization shows between 0 and 1%.

We shall see how it goes and if problems arise -I'll do what I always do... -Solve them.

Ray

 

[jumps4]

this pc is 64 bit and when I was making videos showing how I use emachineshoop and d2nc, it would not work right for anything. I had windows 7 32 bit installed on my laptop and everything runs perfect. I haven't had a problem with any of the cad or cam software's or the screen capture software either.
steve

 

[Ray C]

this pc is 64 bit and when I was making videos showing how I use emachineshoop and d2nc, it would not work right for anything. I had windows 7 32 bit installed on my laptop and everything runs perfect. I haven't had a problem with any of the cad or cam software's or the screen capture software either.
steve

Steve, I really think it's a double-edge sword. Older operating systems have a hard time running on new hardware and vise-versa. I ran groups of software engineers and we developed highly sophisticated programs (doing audio analysis) that had to run on high-end desktop or low-end server platforms. I've bumped into these issues one or two times before . It's a real pain when things like this happen -but at least now, I've got a heads-up to keep my eyes wide on the horizon.

If it makes you feel any better, this computer will only run Mach III. I've got other (fairly high-end) laptops and desktops that are running the CAD/CAM software, quickbooks -and a million other things.

I was surprised to hear that RF interference causing LAN/WiFi dropouts would cause the machine to go nuts. ANY program worth a nickel that causes a crash because the network drops out is clearly at fault. Programs are supposed to be written to assume communication links will fail mid-stream -and they should be robust enough to not crash in horrible ways. This is a fundamental principle of programming 101. Similarly, transmitted communication protocols across a wire (such as USB) should have error detection/correction. If these kinds of crashes are characteristic of Mach then, frankly, I will look for a different controller.

I've spent a lifetime developing hardware (and software) that can function under the worst possible conditions such that it always fails-safe. If Mach and the supporting hardware interface modules aren't built to reasonable specifications, I will eventually get rid of it and replace it with safe/adequate software and equipment.


Ray

 

[jumps4]

I'm sorry I am getting the feeling we are getting off on the wrong foot here, my replies were in direct response to your question and I'll quote

" Does anyone have any guesses about how suitable of a platform this would be to run Win 7 and Mach 3? This platform would not be used for general purpose computing -just a dedicated platform for a Mach 3 CNC machine.
Ray "
after stating you would only use the pc for the machine you showed you had internet capability installed also
your knowledge is far greater than mine on pc and software and I was just relating the problems I had encountered with other people trying to use windows 7.
I'm hoping you find a stable answer and there are a lot of other people also interested. please post your findings
steve

 

[Ray C]

Steve,

No way are we on the wrong foot... I positively thank you for opening my eyes a great deal. I now have a much better idea of the framework of the software/hardware involved. It seems like it's Caveat Emptor and I thought things were more robust than that...

Thank you!

Ray

I'm sorry I am getting the feeling we are getting off on the wrong foot here, my replies were in direct response to your question and I'll quote

" Does anyone have any guesses about how suitable of a platform this would be to run Win 7 and Mach 3? This platform would not be used for general purpose computing -just a dedicated platform for a Mach 3 CNC machine.
Ray "
after stating you would only use the pc for the machine you showed you had internet capability installed also
your knowledge is far greater than mine on pc and software and I was just relating the problems I had encountered with other people trying to use windows 7.
I'm hoping you find a stable answer and there are a lot of other people also interested. please post your findings
steve

 

[xalky]

While we're on the subject of "archaic but stable". A Parrallel port is the way to go for this application for the stepper signal from the PC to the motor controllers. Steve knows what he's talking about, I learned most of this stuff the hard way, and he confirms everything about running Mach 3 with a PC, that I learned. I too thought I had a better solution, and had to redo a lot of my setup because of it. Plus I had some big time problems trying to use a Chinese plasma cutter that emitted so much EMF that it burned up 2 power supplys on my PC, and that was with a tremendous amount of shielding and grounding. In my quest to straighten out the RF problem, I spent days and weeks reading about setting this thing up properly. I learned a lot of information not directly related to my RF problem... stuff that just sort of trickles in while looking for answers.

You have a milling machine which won't have nearly the RF problems associated with plasma cutting, but, spend some time over at CNC zone, You'll learn about what works and what will cause you lots of grief.

Marcel

 

[Ray C]

Guys... My head is spinning... LOL: I take this all in good stride but something really seems messed-up here. -And yes, it's my fault for not being "in-the-know" and doing more research.

Anyhow, Parallel vs. Serial... In the old days (I love saying that) serial was invented to allow signals to be transmitted longer distances while being less prone to external interference. Transmission rates were initially quite a bit slower and the processing protocol was slightly more complicated (due to start and stop bits etc) but, immunity was a million times better than parallel transmission. -I couldn't begin to tell you how many P->S and S->P devices I made in the early part of my career...

Anyhow, I don't doubt a word you guys are saying -and I thank you immensely for opening my eyes to what looks to be a very interesting upcoming time for me. What I really want to know is how come the state of hardware and software is so immature in this area? Who is developing this junk and does it go through any kind of product regulatory/safety testing before they ship it out the door? I've only worked in medical devices and laboratory grade electronics equipment all my life -and last I heard, anything electronic you sell in the USA requires some degree of regulatory testing that includes some degree of product stability/failure analysis.

Hmmm, maybe there was a reason I stuck to manual machining all these years... From what you guys are telling me, I'm not so sure I want to even plug this thing in...

Ray