LW Chuck Compny Power Hacksaw

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Rick_B

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Im in the middle f disassemblying a LW Chuck Power Hacksaw ("TOLEDO" model) and am looking for someone who has some experience with these machines. Specifically I am looking for help in the area of taking apart the drive shaft/sector gear/arm/cam/flywheel sub assembly.

I can be more specific with questions and pictures if there is anyone who has been inside one of these.

Thanks
Rick
 
yes, some pictures will help us give you some help and a few questions we may have. Dave:thinking:
 
here's some additional information. Please nothe this is a cust and paste from another forum that I posted the same issue on.

I bought this a while back and posted a few pictures then. I am now dragging it out for tear down and refurbishment. I was thinking I would go through a thorough pictorial as I reassembled - this is a fairly uncommon machine (at least as far as I can find) so I thought it might be useful for others now or in the futre to see the parts and pieces as they go back together. Here is what I am starting with:

AsReceived2_zpse6203f2a.jpg

AsReceived1_zps4531bf1e.jpg

So far I have pulled the electrical, motor mount and motor, driven pulley, clutch and the associated engagement mechanisms and the saw frame. Most of that was fairly straight forward.
I am now at the point of trying to get the drive shaft/flywheel/arm/sector gear out and am stumped. This is a picture of the area I am working on

DriveshaftAssembly_zpsf2e11296.jpg

Starting from the left there is the flywheel (rocker arm attaches to this and powers the saw frame back and forth), a cam which activates the support on the back stroke and the mechanical pump for lubrication, a cast ear, the arm, a second cast ear, the sector gear which is part of the arm support mechanism on the back stroke and the drive shaft.
The drive shaft, cam and flywheel all move togehter and are independant of the arm/sector gear. The arm and sector gear move together. Both the cam and sector gear have a little movement so I think they are keyed. I also believe there is an inner tube between the cast ears that the drive shaft goes through.
My question is how does this come apart. I'm hoping there is someone who has played with this machine in the past or has seen a similiar arrangement.
My first thought was that the flywheel had a taper pin through the shaft but I'll be darned if I can find one. The other places where pins were used on this machine - it was very obvious where they were. I was also thinking maybe the flywheel was press fit on the shaft so I tried a three jaw puller - no luck although I stopped short of full force in fear of breaking the flywheel casting.

Flywheel_zpseff0cbd9.jpg

I moved to the other end and tried turning the ring on the outside of the sector gear (thinking maybe it was threaded) - it turns but doesn't come out.

SectorGearSide_zpsc407b94e.jpg

Any thoughts or ideas on a path to follow?

Thanks
Rick
 
Rick--I am still trying to figure out the moving parts and how they would be dissembled correctly, and I'm sure that others that look at it are doing the same. it would be easier for me if I was at the machine instead of looking at pictures--can you take more pictures of the side views and one of the top view to help us more? are there just oil holes in the two cast ears or are there special set screws threaded in them? also is the middle arm top of shaft contain some special set screw or is it just for oiling--it is hard to tell from your pictures. I'm thinking maybe the shaft somwhere has some grooves that a tapered set screw would keep it in place from side movement ---more pictures please--does the middle arm on the shaft raise in the front up and down, because it looks like it just lets the shaft spin in the rear part---main thing is to keep patience untill we all can figure it out slowly with you without any damage. I think some others in forum will help if you get some better pictures. since it is an old machine, they had special methods of retaining side movements of shafts that also have to be figured out for proper disassembly. Dave :thinking: :thinking:
 
Dave - I have been focusing on the right side of the assembly where the sector gear is -here's a better picture of the right side

Eccentric-SectorGear_zpsef4284e0.jpg

There is actually an outer ring that turns from tight to loose. You can see a fine line where it appears the shaft may be stepped. There is a hole in the "step" but I can't find any set screw at the bottom of it. Its a pretty small hole. I looked closely again and can't find any other areas where there is a set screw, taper pin or anything else that is holding this whole thing together. The outer ring and shaft turn in unison but if you turn the outer ring with a (let's call it a wrench) it moves independantly of what I am calling the shaft step. Turning the outer ring to tight seems to tighten up the movement of the entire shaft - almost like it is an eccentric for wear adjustment and free play? At this point I am baffled.

If this isn't clear let me know - maybe I can put a video together

Rick
 
Rick--after studying more, I would like a few pictures of what you are calling the sector gear--mainly the side and top of it in front of the shaft and where it fastens on to what else it connects to. also if you take a rubber hammer and tap on the shaft ends is there any movement either direction? if so, does the movement change the space between the cam on either side or the spaces on each side of the ears? is there any space now between the flywheel and the cam ? if you take a shim piece and slide it in each of the spaces between the parts down to the shaft and use it like a depth gauge --then you can determine how far the tube goes towards the flywheel. the flywheel looks like it is just on the shaft, and held on by the bolt you took out. I would think if isn't pinned that there must be a key in the shaft. can you shine a bright light in the space between the flywheel and the cam ? if so look for a keyway--you can also take a fine narrow shim and slip in all the spaces between the components and rotate the shaft slowly to feel any keyways as it turns. you can also tell if the keyways are all in the same line and width of them. with a dental pick if it fits, you can test the sides of the components for any keyway by rotating the shaft slowly and twist the pick to catch any side gaps along the id bores ---You can also remove the oil cup on the top of the arm and do a depth measurement to see if the tube runs through it. --I'm thinking the tube runs all the way from the cam to the sector gear.--you may want to keep applying penetrating oil to all parts to loosen any stuck parts slowly, and it will also help in cleaning the spaces out. --hope this info helps you and others. waiting for more pics----Dave :thinking:
 
Rick--I think your flywheel should be able to be pulled off. to do this put your 3 jaw puller on and exert some tension and leave your puller on for overnight.--keep putting penetrating oil on the shaft end and between the cam and flywheel so it can still seep in--in the morning put just a little more tension on the puller and a few light hammer taps on the puller end and a few light taps on the flywheel when there is still tension on the puller.--make sure that you don't damage your shaft threads by the puller--don't put so much tension on the puller that would break the flywheel--it may just take several days with tension on it to finally release. --Dave----* I see that lot more members are reading this thread , so maybe we will get some more ideas on how it properly should come apart :thinking:
 
I'm posting a video of the mechanism in question - hopefully it will be clearer than my verbal attempt to describe it. Please note that there are two laces in the video where is moving and the crank wheel/shaft are moving with it - that is simply friction - the shaft assy is completely independant of the arm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mWnjuASSjM8

Dave - unless a better idea pops up Im going to try your idea of getting the crank wheel off even though I don't think it is how it was assembled. At least it would be a step forward.

Rick
 
Rick--was there a bolt on the end of the shaft where you put your puller or is it just a shaft center drill--It looks like there is a hole and threads for a bolt but maybe I'm just not seeing it clear enough--If there wasn't a bolt and washer in that end, then I'm thinking it has to be pinned to keep it from working off the shaft--if this is the case then a puller shouldn't be used untill the pin is found and removed.--keep cleaning the flywheel hub in case the pin is covered with paint . it would probably be a tapered pin if you find one. just have patience and maybe one of the other members will help us, there are more and more reading this thread, so if they think we are missing something they will help. just one more question about the sector gear--when you lift the arm and the sector gear rises, if you hold the front of the sector gear is there any side play at all when you move it or any slop at all? also the small spacer with the hole --you say you can rotate it some--both directions? maybe it is a threaded ring to hold the sector gear on and the tiny hole is a spot to tap on sideways to tighten or loosen it. try turning it left and see if there is any slop in the sector gear==if not turn it right and see if there is any--maybe it will unscrew after working it back and forth and applying penetrating oil. maybe the small hole was for a spanner pin???? ===Dave--:thinking:-
 
Dave - no bolt/washer on the crank end. I did remove the grease cup just to eliminate the possibility of a fastener in there. There is a grease hole that goes through the outer tube which allows grease to get to the drive shaft.

I'm becoming somewhat convinced that the key is on the sector gear end - don't know how yet but I'll keep looking.

Rick
 
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