Looking for a good Tap and Die Set

[zmotorsports]

Where did this come from? I have never heard of hex=repair and round=cutting. I have both kinds and use them either way with no issues.

I don't know if it is "official" but a mentor I had many years ago told me that the round dies that are split/adjustable are for thread cutting and the solid perimeter hex dies are for thread chasing. I don't know if that is older machining terminology or what. He explained it because when you see tailstock die holder and the thread cutting die handles they have the set screws for adjustability depending on what class thread you want to cut. It made sense to me and I guess stuck in my head.

I too have cut many, many threads using my hex dies both at home and work without any issues. However, I did splurge and purchase a tap/die set with adjustable round dies for my home shop several years ago and like using it. I have seen a few members on here refer to them the same way so I am just assuming it is older terminology. The adjustable round dies definitely are harder to find nowadays though.

 

[chips&more]

Where did this come from? I have never heard of hex=repair and round=cutting. I have both kinds and use them either way with no issues.

The hex dies are called “Chasers” and are typically used for rethreading/cleaning up a bad thread. Maybe there cutting geometry is different?

 

[RandyM]

I don't know if it is "official" but a mentor I had many years ago told me that the round dies that are split/adjustable are for thread cutting and the solid perimeter hex dies are for thread chasing. I don't know if that is older machining terminology or what. He explained it because when you see tailstock die holder and the thread cutting die handles they have the set screws for adjustability depending on what class thread you want to cut. It made sense to me and I guess stuck in my head.

I too have cut many, many threads using my hex dies both at home and work without any issues. However, I did splurge and purchase a tap/die set with adjustable round dies for my home shop several years ago and like using it. I have seen a few members on here refer to them the same way so I am just assuming it is older terminology. The adjustable round dies definitely are harder to find nowadays though.

The hex dies are called “Chasers” and are typically used for rethreading/cleaning up a bad thread. Maybe there cutting geometry is different?

Thank you guys. I understand the differences in chasers and cutters I just never heard of this before. Now, I have heard of thread files and restorers. But, I am not buying this classification difference. Question, why would a chaser die cut a perfect thread if it is just a chaser. Sorry but this is just not adding up.

 

[JimDawson]

We have kind of hijacked this thread into a discussion of hex vs round split dies. Thread cutting dies come in both split round, and fixed hex configuration. Sometimes in the same set. The thread cutting geometry is about the same in both. Thread chasers are normally a hex configuration, but the geometry is more like a roll form. They won't cut threads, and are many times sized the same as a nut for the corresponding size thread.

To answer the OP's question, I would buy the pieces individually, in taps I normally purchase HHS spiral point taps, they are great for general purpose use. I have found that Fastenall taps are pretty good. In the smaller sizes, say 3/8 and smaller, I usually buy 5 to 10 pieces at a time, especially in the #10 to 5/16 range. If I break a tap right in the middle of a job, I don't want to have to run and get another one. The local hardware store taps and dies are normally pretty much junk. I rarely use dies because I normally just single point on the lathe if I need to do external threading. I assume the Fastenall dies would be about the same quality as their taps, but I have no experience with them. Their tap handles seem to be fine. About 45 years ago I bought a Craftsman Chrome-Edge metric set (hex dies), and I think I only have broken one tap out of that set. Another option, just to get the storage boxes, would be to buy sets from HF and replace the taps & dies with good ones as the original ones fail.

 

[darkzero]

We have kind of hijacked this thread into a discussion of hex vs round split dies. Thread cutting dies come in both split round, and fixed hex configuration. Sometimes in the same set. The thread cutting geometry is about the same in both. Thread chasers are normally a hex configuration, but the geometry is more like a roll form. They won't cut threads, and are many times sized the same as a nut for the corresponding size thread.

Sorry to the OP for continuing on with the hijack....

I agree with Jim that hex dies for chasing & round split dies for threading is not true. Split dies simply allow you to adjust the type of thread fit you need to cut & hex or round dies of course do not. Typical not spilt dies from hardware stores are probably class 2 or as I would say class 1 as the fit is on the sloppy side. But they can purchased with specific fit.

As said thread chasers (taps & dies) which are also called thread restorers will not cut a new thread. They are used to repair & clean existing threads. Say if a crest is slightly rolled over, they will form it back (but not always) somewhat as where you would use a thread cutting tap or die on it the crest will be cut off. They will also clean whatever crap is stuck in the root (depending on class fit). These chaser sets are not as common in machine shops so it seems. I used them a lot when I worked in automotive & they saved me lots of time & money.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Sorry to the OP for continuing on with the hijack....

I agree with Jim that hex dies for chasing & round split dies for threading is not true. Split dies simply allow you to adjust the type of thread fit you need to cut & hex or round dies of course do not. Typical not spilt dies from hardware stores are probably class 2 or as I would say class 1 as the fit is on the sloppy side. But they can purchased with specific fit.

As said thread chasers (taps & dies) which are also called thread restorers will not cut a new thread. They are used to repair & clean existing threads. Say if a crest is slightly rolled over, they will form it back (but not always) somewhat as where you would use a thread cutting tap or die on it the crest will be cut off. They will also clean whatever crap is stuck in the root (depending of calss fit). These chaser sets are as common in machine shops so it seems. I used them a lot when I worked in automotive & they saved me lots of time & money.

+ 1. Up I have several craftsman tap and die sets with hex dies and they have been making new threads for decades.

i also have the crafstman re-threading set shown here and it is only meant to straiten out or cleans out existing threads. I also reach for it all the time as a thread checker set when I am trying to figure out what nut or bolt I have.

Chris

 

[darkzero]

Yup my chaser set is from Craftsman too 15yrs ago, now that a lot of their stuff is from China who knows if they still carry it now. Not manufactured by Craftsman though that's for sure. IIRC they are made by Kastar or KD, I forget, USA made. But I did used to get individual replacements from my Matco truck.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Look at Vermont American brand. They have a complete set with a case. They used to make great tools.

Vermont America used to make the old "MADE IN USA" Crafstman tap and die sets. The new Vermont American sets are identical to my older Crafstman set. I doubt that Vermont American are still made in the USA, but if they were I would buy a set.

i believe irwin is still made in the USA, but I don't know how good they are.

here are my older crafstman sets so you can compare them to the vermont American.
The set on the left are SAE only, and the set on the right is SAE/Metric.

Chris

 

[GA Gyro]

Vermont America used to make the old "MADE IN USA" Crafstman tap and die sets. The new Vermont American sets are identical to my older Crafstman set. I doubt that Vermont American are still made in the USA, but if they were I would buy a set.

i believe irwin is still made in the USA, but I don't know how good they are.

here are my older crafstman sets so you can compare them to the vermont American.
The set on the left are SAE only, and the set on the right is SAE/Metric.

Chris

I believe that set on the right is the one I have... albeit in a black box. Has both SAE and Metric, lots of sizes. It is a 'Chrome-edge' set.
A few sizes are missing... probably can replace them as needed.

Will need to test a few of them in steel... to see if they are made of good metal or pot metal.
Seems I remember most taps will thread AL... but not all taps will thread steel.

THX for the pics!

GA

 

[drs23]

I've got the set on the left. Had it for many years and I can assure you that they'll tap steel.

R.E. Irwin being made in USA, I'm not so sure. There was a thread quite some time back where Lowe's was having a blow out sale on their entire tool line and I recall several folks talking about how the quality of the Irwin line had plummeted since being outsourced to China. I know for a fact that the Vice-Grip brand is now no better than the HF version. Holding a new pair in one hand and my 30yo 8" Vice-Grips in the other there is no comparison. Not even close!