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lllooooose gib
- Thread starter LEEQ
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2012
- Messages
- 1,356
Re: lllooooose gib - Update on Wear Strip on Gibs
That's braze, some made an extension and they braze welded it on. If I could get a close look at the area, I could be sure, or it was a broken gib and welded back together. On many machines one can use platic color shim (MSC has assorted sixes and colors in a pack) on the backs of gibs . BP one needs to put a metal shim on the back and not plastic because the locks press against the back and in the past I have tried that and the shim gets smashed. That's why I put Rulon 142 (turcite) on the front of the gibs. If you use plastic shim on other gibs, bead plast of sand one side that is shinny.(on my first post I was tired when I wrote it, so I screwed up the info, after reading it again, I fixed and added more info)
I recommend you buy the glue recommended by the manufacture. Rulon has a 1/2 pint, pint, quart kit and it has .003" glass beads in it to get a good line of glue. 90% of all machine tools produced for Industrial use now have Rulon 142 or Turcite on the wear side of ways. Both conventional and CNC. The Rulon and Turcite material has one side that is acid etched so the glue will penetrate so it will not sheer off. You also need to roughen the gib surface by glass bead (sand) blasting it. Or scratching the heck out of the metal. Use acid-tone or brake cleaner to de-grease everything. The glue is 2 part Epoxy.
I have also had great luck with Loc-Tite Black Max Super Glue. A Gunsmith introduced it to me and I called Tri-Star the company I purchase the material from says it is a good product in a pinch. But it sets up in 5 min and no beads. I also have had very good using Grade Linen Phenolic on the wear side or the gib, but it isn't self lubricating as Rulon is. You can buy a new gib, but it may not be the same taper. The gib that was welded should probably be replaced as from the one picture it looks like it was ground and butchured up on the one end. If the taper is off, You can grind or mill it. I can write about that another time. I have the taper the same on the gib before I glue on the gib, so you do not cut the wear strip thin on one side. (more on that later, I'm getting writers cramp)
It's real difficult to help you over the Internet as there are so many issues on that machine I have no clue if the column flats and dovetail ways are accurate? Is that gib straight or is its taper correct? I have no idea if the back of the knee is accurate, etc
But to make it better then it is now I would glue on some Phenolic, Rulon or Turcite on the front or wear side of the gib so you can run the machine. The gap you said is .023" That would be a perfect spot for some 020" Phenolic and a layer of epoxy would be .003". Easy for me to say, but putting it into action is hard for a beginner. Do you have a flat surface like a Granite plate? I can bring a 12" x 18" plate, but the more I think about the machine and it's issues, I think I may have to charge you if it takes more then a few hours as we first discussed.
That's braze, some made an extension and they braze welded it on. If I could get a close look at the area, I could be sure, or it was a broken gib and welded back together. On many machines one can use platic color shim (MSC has assorted sixes and colors in a pack) on the backs of gibs . BP one needs to put a metal shim on the back and not plastic because the locks press against the back and in the past I have tried that and the shim gets smashed. That's why I put Rulon 142 (turcite) on the front of the gibs. If you use plastic shim on other gibs, bead plast of sand one side that is shinny.(on my first post I was tired when I wrote it, so I screwed up the info, after reading it again, I fixed and added more info)
I recommend you buy the glue recommended by the manufacture. Rulon has a 1/2 pint, pint, quart kit and it has .003" glass beads in it to get a good line of glue. 90% of all machine tools produced for Industrial use now have Rulon 142 or Turcite on the wear side of ways. Both conventional and CNC. The Rulon and Turcite material has one side that is acid etched so the glue will penetrate so it will not sheer off. You also need to roughen the gib surface by glass bead (sand) blasting it. Or scratching the heck out of the metal. Use acid-tone or brake cleaner to de-grease everything. The glue is 2 part Epoxy.
I have also had great luck with Loc-Tite Black Max Super Glue. A Gunsmith introduced it to me and I called Tri-Star the company I purchase the material from says it is a good product in a pinch. But it sets up in 5 min and no beads. I also have had very good using Grade Linen Phenolic on the wear side or the gib, but it isn't self lubricating as Rulon is. You can buy a new gib, but it may not be the same taper. The gib that was welded should probably be replaced as from the one picture it looks like it was ground and butchured up on the one end. If the taper is off, You can grind or mill it. I can write about that another time. I have the taper the same on the gib before I glue on the gib, so you do not cut the wear strip thin on one side. (more on that later, I'm getting writers cramp)
It's real difficult to help you over the Internet as there are so many issues on that machine I have no clue if the column flats and dovetail ways are accurate? Is that gib straight or is its taper correct? I have no idea if the back of the knee is accurate, etc
But to make it better then it is now I would glue on some Phenolic, Rulon or Turcite on the front or wear side of the gib so you can run the machine. The gap you said is .023" That would be a perfect spot for some 020" Phenolic and a layer of epoxy would be .003". Easy for me to say, but putting it into action is hard for a beginner. Do you have a flat surface like a Granite plate? I can bring a 12" x 18" plate, but the more I think about the machine and it's issues, I think I may have to charge you if it takes more then a few hours as we first discussed.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2011
- Messages
- 786
Richard, I just learned some new techniques from your last post... What kind of glue do you use to allow Turcite or Rulon to stick to the gib without being sheared off? I presume you're saying these go on the wear side of the gib.
BTW, I'm very curious as to what vendor is building machines so poorly.
Thanks,
John
As to the vendor. I bought a machine with the understanding that it was a 74 step pulley that he hadn't powered up or gotten into. The head was supposed to need a $200 parts and labor repair, but no promises. It was also the understanding that the ways were in good shape. The column is from the no door Textron era. The knee, saddle, and probably table are from 1952 as per hardinges records. The turret and ram are unknown year. The head is from 65. In short, the machine is parts thrown together. I have replaced $500 in parts, mostly missing. None of the little pretty or quill handwheel. Just bare bones gotta have it to work stuff. I feel the ways and gibs are in a shape not agreed upon. I can't tighten down gibs enough for them to take effect except for the repaired table gib which I believe to be at improper angles. You can't get it in flush under the wiper, but there is still play at the other end. I realized that it was going to be a project. If the ways were in good shape as promised, I could ignore my labor and get over the $500 in parts. I could get over getting a head missing so many parts and having to educate myself how to repair/assemble something that wasn't whole when I took it apart. I could pretty up the ways and be happy. I feel that this is not the case. I AM NEW. I could be looking at this all wrong! Before I tell the world what I think of this all and put someone's name out there, I'm going to have it assessed by someone who knows what they are doing. I am trying to give someone a fair shake though I feel they *******tted the new guy and sold him lies. I am not old by any means and have made an ass of myself on several occasions. I will never forget them. I hope to not make to many more of those. So until I know more, I don't feel it best to say more. What I have said here, I can prove to be true. I can't prove what I was promised, but I can prove what I got. I can also promise you I won't behave like that. My mother would be ashamed.
I don't have granite yet. I also think that table gib will need ground down to apply the wear strip. It is very tight at the big end, but loose at the little end. I could also buy a new gib. At the cost of a new part that I think could then be fit without too much trouble, I don't think I could have that ground by someone else, glue on wear strip, and fit. Just spit balling. The saddle gib was .012 under, the knee was .023 under.
I will be happy to put you in a room if necessary, and also happy to pay for your expertise even if it's a few hours. I think a new gib for the table is in order. Starting with unbutchered has got to be easier. Fingers crossed, it might even have a better taper fit. One can hope. Thanks
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2012
- Messages
- 1,356
Some gibs that you order do not have the gib screw notch pre-cut in them and you will have to mill it in, so don't throw away the old gib. As you can put them back to back so you can hold them in a vise. Some will have the notch milled in them and have to be milled or ground thinner to fit. Be sure to tell who you order it from the thickness you need. So measure the big end of the gib and add the feeler gage thickness plus .010. It will probably be .100" thicker, but with your luck it will be thinner.....lol
I use High Quality Parts, but there are a few others too on the net that sell BP parts.