Lathe and Mill Help - Usage is for Gauge 1 and Gauge F (1/32 and 1/20.5 scale) Live Steam Locomotives

[fsts2k]

Hello,
I have been on this forum reading for a year or two attempting to get "smart" on options; truthfully I am very much an amateur. Here is my situation, I enjoy running and maintaining live steam locomotives but not the huge ones.. just Gauge 1 and Gauge F. I need to do relatively simple things like creating brass bolts, brass nuts, small parts, etc. I am new to machining so this is as much of a learning experience.

Up to this point I have been thinking about buying a PM-1228VF-LD and a correspondingly sized mill. That said, I am wondering if I am overkilling this (usually my MO). I have a bedroom sized workshop so while space isn't a huge issue, it would be nice to not consuming all the bench space.

Ok, so here is the question. I know the answer is always "buy the biggest machine you can afford/fit in your shop". That said, for doing work on small scale locomotives, is it worth looking at something like a Sherline to get started? Is a better option the Little Machine Shop 7500? Or should I just wait another 5 years until I get a bigger shop?

I know this question is a challenge to answer and most will respond to buy big but that won't happen. I am a bit paralyzed by options right now..

Thanks for any help

 

[francist]

I think if I were in your shoes I might do two things:

1. Do not wait for the so-called ‘bigger place’. Why? So you can buy a bigger machine that you don’t even know you need yet, meanwhile time’s a ticking and who knows what a five-year wait will bring. If you enjoy the hobby now do it now.
2. Do not feel bad about starting out with a small machine, especially if you aren’t sure about your needs. For one thing, bigger machines take a bigger investment right off the bat in everything from tooling to space so if either of those is in short supply you're hooped. A smaller machine will let you get your feet wet, see how you like using the machines, and also help you decide what features you may (or may not as the case may be) be missing that could come from a bigger machine. Plus you can have more small machines in the same size space than large ones, so if there are some other things that you may want to add to your arsenal you won’t have tied up all your real estate.

As for which machines to choose, I’ll leave that to some others who have more direct experience. All mine are older and vintage iron (still small, but not what you can walk out and buy off the shelf anymore) and I know there are some with great experience on things like Sherline. I would advise to buy something decent though. I think a lot of folks probably end up with more machine than they need just because they got frustrated with a low-quality small one. Chances are if it’s good to begin with the resale value will still be there if you decide you need to upgrade, but then again it’s small so you’d probably be keep it around anyway even if you did get a larger version.

Just my thinkin’ on the subject.

-frank

 

[silverhawk]

I agree with @francist - don't ever feel bad about buying a smaller machine. I started out with a Dunlap wood lathe that I picked up a compound for because the manual says it was capable. That lathe has helped me get the other two up and running.

The mantra about buying the biggest you can afford is simply because at some point, you might want to do something outside of the work envelope. It always happens that way.

My belief is to start somewhere. If you don't have the room, the "buy the biggest you can afford" should be "buy the biggest you can fit", but even then, I take issue with circumstance.

A Sherline is a decent starting point, and has more portability than a larger lathe. If you only have a closet for a shop, start somewhere. Once you spend enough time "doing", you'll have a better idea of size and capability when you do get a larger footprint. (That comes from a guy who uses a tiny shed for the machine tools, and that means I have to have portable tools).

 

[Aaron_W]

Railroad gauges confuse me, I see F gauge is listed as roughly 1/20 scale. I would think a Sherline lathe would be quite capable of handing many parts the size you are likely to make. I have been using a Sherline lathe and mill for several years to make parts for 1/72 to 1/24 scale models.

The PM1228 would not be a bad choice either if you are space limited. Obviously a lot bigger than a Sherline.

I tend to buck the trend of buy the biggest when people are unsure of their needs. In your particular case you could buy a very nicely tooled Sherline lathe and mill and still have money left over vs the PM1228. You may in time find the need for larger machines, but the Sherlines will continue to contribute useful service to your shop. By the time you start longing to do some larger projects you will have a much better idea of what your needs are.

I started out with a Sherline lathe and mill. I have since added a number of larger machines, but the Sherlines still get a lot of use, because they are now very well tooled up, quiet and very handy for little projects.

 

[Larry$]

Given that all the accessories/tooling will end up costing as much as the lathe or mill, it makes sense to start one step up from your minimum size requirements. Most accessories can't be moved to a larger lathe or mill. Some tooling can be. I've never used a Sherline, I'm guessing they are higher quality than the typical mini lathe. Small mills are most limited by their Z-axis. By the time you add some tooling the work space is greatly reduced. A 1228 lathe would have a lot more capability than what you are talking about making. A mill & a lathe make a set allowing most anything to be made within their size limits.

 

[fsts2k]

Thank you for the input, super helpful. I appreciate the vote of confidence on the Sherline. The fact that others who have the Sherline and have scaled up still use them seems like a positive for me.

I struggle with the "right" purchase but am starting to get my head around getting a Sherline mill and lathe with accessories (should be all in with tooling cheaper than the PM) and see if I like machining. The LittleMachineShop lathe (SIEG SC4) is nice but I think where my head is now that if I can fit a SIEG SC4 I would prefer the larger PM lathe. Starting with a Sherline seems like it still makes sense...

Re: railroad scales.. yes, the scales are a bit weird. F scale is the 1/20.5 which is narrow gauge trails (think Denver & Rio Grand) on G scale track. Generally the parts are all pretty small.

 

[Bi11Hudson]

As a "small scale" model railroader, I would throw in a few pointers from the perspective of a modeler rather than a machinist. A Taig or a Sherline should be more than sufficient for anything up to 3/8 inch scale. I am mostly in HO, ~1:87, and yet use a Craftsman 12 inch machine. Not because I need it, I don't, but also am a "contraptionist", following in my father's footsteps. And pursue knowledge in general, much of which I find here.

For a novice machinist, might I suggest a smaller, much less costly machine. Something on the order of a Horrible Fright (no, that is not a misspelling) lathe and/or mill. The 6X12 "mini lathe" has a wide following on YouTube. As you true and tune the machine, a necessary step, you will learn about the machine and what it can do. It needn't come from HF, there are other vendors that sell the same machine, some better, some worse. I wouldn't tackle 1/8 scale again, but. . .

I started with a UniMat DB-200 (3", 75mm?) way back ~1970, then graduated to a 6X12 when Chinese machines came available, among some other sizes. I found lathe work to be itself interesting as a hobby. I still do my models, but try to keep up with machining where I can. Hence the 12" machine, when space became available, when I tackled 7-1/2 inch guage stuff. An entry level machine Starting "cheap" can often pay off in the long run, as you damage the machine through ineptitude. Further, as you do have more space available, much of the tooling will fit larger machines.

Please feel free to contact me, my eMail was posted when I signed up. There is much to cover as modelers.

.

 

[Aaron_W]

Thank you for the input, super helpful. I appreciate the vote of confidence on the Sherline. The fact that others who have the Sherline and have scaled up still use them seems like a positive for me.

I struggle with the "right" purchase but am starting to get my head around getting a Sherline mill and lathe with accessories (should be all in with tooling cheaper than the PM) and see if I like machining. The LittleMachineShop lathe (SIEG SC4) is nice but I think where my head is now that if I can fit a SIEG SC4 I would prefer the larger PM lathe. Starting with a Sherline seems like it still makes sense...

Re: railroad scales.. yes, the scales are a bit weird. F scale is the 1/20.5 which is narrow gauge trails (think Denver & Rio Grand) on G scale track. Generally the parts are all pretty small.

The Sherline lathes can easily handle a diameter up to around 1-1/2", larger is possible but at around 2" you really have to get creative. Unlikely to be an issue for many parts but if you want to make larger items like wheels that might become a limiting factor.

Sherline does sell spacer blocks allowing larger material to be worked on the lathe (increases from a 3.5" swing to around 6"). When I started to get into wanting to turn larger things, I chose to get a larger lathe, but many are happy with spacer blocks.

When you start to want to go larger the possibilities are endless, but by then you will have a far greater idea of how big and what features your "forever" machine should have. Also hopefully by that point you will also have your hoped for bigger shop.

On the Sherline they have excellent customer service and an extensive line of accessories. Personally I'd suggest the larger 3.5x17" 4400 lathe (4410 if you prefer metric) as you will probably find the shorter 8" versions run out of room very quickly. Sherlines tooling packages are very good deals, the C package includes almost everything you will want for quite some time and saves you hundreds of dollars vs buying individually. The 5400 mill is a good choice but I'd suggest you choose the extended column which adds 3 or 4" of vertical height, again an area where things get tight.

 

[fsts2k]

Thank you… I think I am starting to land on a full sherline machine shop package. The machines and tooling is the cost of a larger machine and it would appear to do what I need for modeling. I know that if I enjoy this I will need to increase machine size but I am struggling to justify the cost and space of something like a pm1228 out of the start. If the sherline is still useful to others even with a larger machine, perhaps it won’t be a lost cost.

 

[silverhawk]

I am both an angel and a devil, sitting on your shoulder and whispering, "do it". Studio C - Shoulder Angel (or this one).