Just started reconditioning a pretty decent 101.07301 have some questions for the experienced!

[makeparts]

Ok folks, I hit a wall tonight.

Spent about 4 hours cleaning, and trying to fit the head stock and spindle parts for assembly. no joy. I was stumped.

took my time, lightly filed the burrs I found on the spindle (set screw damage from both bull and cone spindle pulley, the 2 keyways, and general abuse by some heavy handed PO) using a very light file, and some 400 grit, also very lightly), and checked the fit using the original sleeve bearings.

Installed the new headstock sleeve bearings into the headstock, which went pretty smoothly.

Then I installed new sleeve bearings for the new cone pulley I found (an M6-79, which I think was new old stock from somewhere, or lightly used. it still has casting marks/seams in the pulley sheaves). Oiled them with spindle oil, and pushed them in with wood/small hammer and some by hand.

I couldn't get this new spindle pulley with new sleeve bearings to fit on the spindle, although I didn't try very hard. It seemed to me that the spindle is going to be as tight a press fit as the cone pulley was, for it's sleeve bearings installed. the cone spindle pulley that came with the lathe seems to match the new pulley, but upon measuring, it is about 0.01" longer (end of gear to end of largest sheave). but the cone pulley sleeves pressed in about as I would have expected. nice and snug, but moved when tapped with a dowel/wood, and small hammer.

I didn't want to address that problem at the time, as I wanted to go through the entire process of fitting everything, so I grabbed the original spindle pulley. It slid on right up the shoulder of the bull gear diameter, possibly looser than I would want, but it would probably work fine.

I got the bull gear to slide on, and pressed the key into the keyway, and that all seemed to fit ok. Same as the original cone spindle pulley - it was possibly looser than I expected, but it would move on the shaft, and I didn't really feel any considerable play.

Got the new thrust bearing, and pushed that on. Rather snug fit, but it went on.

I then tried to go through the process of fitting it all together in the headstock, and for the life of me, the combination of the new bearing, new cone spindle pulley, and bull gear, barely fit into the headstock. Forget about space to move the bull gear. It has less than ~0.05" before it hits the indexing pin in the headstock.

The new INA D-5 bearing Clausing supplied is significantly thicker than the Nice 5774 that came with the lathe. So, I grabbed that bearing, and tried a test fit.

It's still way to tight, in my opinion. No room in the headstock. For sure there is no way I can get the bull gear key into it's keyway.

I checked the sleeve bearings - maybe they were protruding past the casting into the headstock space?...maybe .03-.05" for the left sleeve. I remedied that with some gentle whacks on a dowel. But it's still much too tight to get the bull gear key in (see pictures attached).

Also, the spindle is not fully inserted into the headstock, but that may be the issue of pressing the spindle into the inner race in the thrust bearing.

Either I've done something incredibly wrong or stupid, or maybe there is a version of the spindle pulley that is not as thick? I probably spent too much time with it, and am rather tired. But I made sure to stay patient and not rush or force anything... that said, I'm at a total loss as to what might be happening.

The picture below shows the orig. Nice thrust bearing, cone spindle pulley and bull gear all pushed as far over the left as possible. With the indexing pin all the way out, it's still almost touching.

Ideas and suggestions are massively welcome here!

 

[makeparts]

I sat down after dinner today, and looked at the headstock for about 10 minutes, and did a bunch of thought exercises... that cleared my head, and I was able to get the headstock assembled.

Major Milestone!

For me, never having owned a lathe, and taking baggies/buckets of rusty parts, and turning it back into a hopefully soon-to-be-working machine is very rewarding. I hope I didn't f*&^k anything up too badly in the process.

1) I pushed the left sleeve bearing into the headstock (outward away from center of headstock) by about 0.05"
2) I took my time and was able to rock the bull gear woodruff key into position. I have no idea how I made that happen, but Im glad I remembered to put the belt on, because I don't look forward to that process again soon. Although by typing this, it's probably now assured...

It still seems like clearances are too tight, but I think everything functions properly with the back gears. I don't believe the replacement S10F-91 will work, even though Clausing assured me it will. There just isn't enough space, IMO. it's super tight, without the additional thickness of the replacement bearing.

I found that the bull(back) gear pin detent ball (M6-214) is missing, and the spring (M6-257) is jammed down into the hole pretty good. Im going to need a dental tool to get that out, probably. Anybody know the size of it? is it a 1/8" steel ball?

The headstock indexing pin (L9-42) is a bit worn, and even then is very close to the bull gear. I guess my question here is, how far to the right away from the spindle pulley does the bull (back) gear need to be, in order for it to be considered safely disengaged? (the below pics show the back gear in both engaged and disengaged positions)


Is this far enough away to be considered safely disengaged?


At the Cabin Fever Expo, in the consignment sales section, I found a full M6-20BX countershaft assembly, and grabbed it. This will allow me to mount the motor inboard of the countershaft bracket, since it's a NEMA 48, and the little L9-20A is too small to get that motor underneath it without a platform that I didn't want to build. You can see both side by side, in one of the attached pics, for scale.

 

[chippermat]

I would use the original thrust bearing and cone pulley. Push the bull gear to the left and tighten its set scew. Looks to me like it will work fine.

 

[chippermat]

Those clearances look identical to mine.

The picture below shows the orig. Nice thrust bearing, cone spindle pulley and bull gear all pushed as far over the left as possible. With the indexing pin all the way out, it's still almost touching.

View attachment 311200

 

[chippermat]

Oh, do you think the bull gear slides left to engage the cone pulley and right to disengage it? Actually the set screw locks the bull gear to the spindle shaft, and the bull gear doesn't move. (Edit to add: from what I understand; I haven't been able to figure out the set screw on mine..long story. Nonetheless, the bull gear is stationary on the shaft)

What locks the bull gear to the cone pulley to "engage" it, is the pin M6-256. Move the pin to the left to lock the bull gear to the cone pulley, for direct drive. Move the pin to the right to unlock the bull gear from the cone pulley, for using the back gears.

I found that the bull(back) gear pin detent ball (M6-214) is missing, and the spring (M6-257) is jammed down into the hole pretty good. Im going to need a dental tool to get that out, probably. Anybody know the size of it? is it a 1/8" steel ball?

Yes it is a 1/8" steel ball.

 

[phubbman]

You found the countershaft assembly at a consignment sale? You're living right, my friend.

 

[makeparts]

Oh, do you think the bull gear slides left to engage the cone pulley and right to disengage it? Actually the set screw locks the bull gear to the spindle shaft, and the bull gear doesn't move. (Edit to add: from what I understand; I haven't been able to figure out the set screw on mine..long story. Nonetheless, the bull gear is stationary on the shaft)

What locks the bull gear to the cone pulley to "engage" it, is the pin M6-256. Move the pin to the left to lock the bull gear to the cone pulley, for direct drive. Move the pin to the right to unlock the bull gear from the cone pulley, for using the back gears.

Yes it is a 1/8" steel ball.

so, yeah, I thought the bull gear is what slides back and forth to engage the back gears. are you saying I leave the spindle and cone pulley set in position, and only use the 256 pin to engage/disengage? does the spindle cone pulley sit up against the thrust bearing? and how much clearance between the spindle cone pulley and the bull/back gear? like 1/32" or something?

I haven't had any further progress with the lathe, as I've been pretty busy with life and other projects. Im hoping to get back to it in a week or two.

 

[makeparts]

You found the countershaft assembly at a consignment sale? You're living right, my friend.

lol yeah I guess so. It was at the Cabin Fever Expo, in the consignment sales section - basically a machinist consignment sale

I was surprised when I saw it, as I wanted one to fit my larger than OEM motor...it had the M6 part numbers, and I basically carried it around to check the rest of the sales items, as I thought maybe there were other 618/101 parts.

The sleeve bearings were worn so bad there was a 1/16" gap, at least, between the shaft and the sleeve - the sleeve closest to the motor pulley was worn in a teardrop shape! But the rest of the assembly was all there, and in really good shape (minus 2 set screws). Some folks were selling entire machines, in various but mostly functional states, but hell, I just restored one...

 

[wa5cab]

Makeparts,

Sounds as though a previous owner didn't believe in ever oiling anything. If you have time, maybe after you have rebuilt the countershaft assembly but before you have started trying to install it, could you take a photograph of it looking at it from the tailstock end but as though you were standing in front of the tailstock, so that it shows part of the front surfaces just a little?

Assuming that it is the first countershaft revisions (second version) the bracket should be L9-20A and the hanger assembly (includes the cone pulley) should stick up above the bracket instead of hanging down like the third version.

 

[wa5cab]

so, yeah, I thought the bull gear is what slides back and forth to engage the back gears. are you saying I leave the spindle and cone pulley set in position, and only use the 256 pin to engage/disengage? does the spindle cone pulley sit up against the thrust bearing? and how much clearance between the spindle cone pulley and the bull/back gear? like 1/32" or something?

I haven't had any further progress with the lathe, as I've been pretty busy with life and other projects. I'm hoping to get back to it in a week or two.

No, the bull gear is fixed on the spindle. The small spindle gear (sold and numbered as though it were a part of the cone pulley) apparently sits up against the thrust bearing. Assuming that all else is the same as on the 618 (except for the absence of a collar with set screws between the bearing and gear), the clearance between the bearing and gear should be 0.003" to 0.005". Apparently, that clearance is set by loosening the set screw in the bull gear and sliding the bull gear towards the pulley. And unlike with all of the roller bearing headstocks except the 6" MK2, you can actually use a feeler gauge to set it. Slide a 0.003" feeler gauge down between the small gear and the thrust bearing, hold the bull gear against the pulley, tighten the set screw, and confirm that the clearance is less than 0.006"