Intro to my little hobby metal shop and request for tooling recommendations

[CounterSunkenTreasure]

Hey all! I did some basic machining in college on full sized equipment about 15 years ago in engineering school. I still tinker with all sorts of things around in my home shop and came across an opportunity to pick up a Grizzly G0704 7x27” 1HP R8 Mill and a G4000 9x19” 3/4HP lathe second hand locally. Small home shop sized things don't come up often in my area so i jumped on it. Both came basically unused (but older) with a decent set of starter tooling and I've picked up some stuff along the way. So far I tore each down, cleaned them up, and re-lubed everything. I’m sure I still have some adjustments to do but everything seems to be working as intended (well for an import machine). Please excuse the mess... generally its quite a bit more tidy but I'm between projects.




I have no particular projects in mind. Just hobbies or parts that could be useful in my regular putzing around in the shop or restoring old equipment. I’ll probably make a few upgrade parts for the machines first. I already added an OXO QCTP to the lathe and machined a female threaded bolt to interface with the existing stud. (Pictured). Potential next improvements:

• 4 Bolt clamp for Carriage on lathe
• iGuaging DRO install on Mill
• Maybe some kind of tramming apparatus for the mill
• I've seen a few people creatively mount some sort of adjustable DTI to the lathe to measure cuts quickly.
• Belt Drive Mill and maybe up spindle speed a hair
• Treadmill motor conversion for lathe

Open to any suggested useful projects here as well.


QCTP Machined female bolt (made from leftover suspension bolt because I dont throw anything out)

Fitment


I recently scooped up a endmill lot from a local guy. It's mainly carbide from Data Flute, Garr, Duramill, and Niagara. I’d say some of it looks new or still sharp, some used, and some a victim of poor storage and transport. I cleaned and lubed them up (although used an oiled rag which left some minor lint in the pictures). I’d wager some of the larger ones outsize my mill’s motor and rigidity. I know carbide is able to run a lot faster/harder in general at any size. Would it still perform well at my mill’s capabilities at slower passes or smaller cuts? My max rpm is 2500 which is well below what people run a lot of the smaller carbide with. I know HSS is usually recommended but wasn't sure if there was a performance reason or just cost. Seeing as how i own all this carbide already cost isn't really the issue.

FYI MTM and Frankford Arsenal make some handle rifle ammo cases for a few bucks that fit endmills pretty well. Checkout my pictures. I can give you size/model recommendations if anyone is interested.

Here's a list of the items I have that either came with the purchase or I've picked up along the way. I scour ebay and want ads and pick up things on the thrift when I can. I try to get USA when it's reasonable but I'm not above import items.

Any hints for what i’m missing that would be useful in general would be great.






Open to recommendations but off the top of my head here are things I think I would find useful. Let me know if you think they are or not:

• Flycutter
• Face mill
• Boring head and bars
• 115 Drill index
• Center drills
• Spotting drills
• HHS lathe bits or blanks
• Countersinks
• Deburring bits

Also I can't imagine I'll ever need this many endmills so anyone is interested in some of the excess endmills I have I'd love to barter etc for some things I could use. Thanks for reading.

 

[ttabbal]

Looks like a nice setup overall. Good score for a home guy!

• Flycutter

Yes, get one. I use a ebay unit, with HSS or an insert tool depending on how big a hurry I want to be in. Aluminum I use HSS because it's plenty fast.

• Face mill

Might put that off a while. Little mills have trouble running them. Even in my Bridgeport, I get better finish from the flycutter. To be fair, the face mill is Chineseium, so it might be part of the problem.

• Boring head and bars

Handy to have. I use a Criterion from ebay with Borite Cobalt bars, works very well for me.

• 115 Drill index
• Center drills
• Spotting drills

Lots of drills, gotta love drills. Center drills in particular you need for the lathe so you can use tailstock centers.

• HHS lathe bits or blanks

Particularly with a small lathe, yes, get some and learn to grind. Sharp HSS can help a lot on smaller lathes. The HSS thread is huge, but there is a lot of good information there to learn about them. And if you need form tools or odd geometry, it's really nice to be able to grab a blank and make what you need. Even if you choose to use inserts most of the time, having a few around is worth while for that.

• Countersinks

I usually only use them when I want flat head screws, but yes, they are handy.

• Deburring bits

Yeah, you need deburring stuff. I have a Noga hand tool set to knock the worst bits off, a little filing gets the rest. Files are great to have around.

 

[CounterSunkenTreasure]

@ttabbal Thanks!

Flycutter: any general guidelines for size or style?

Facemill: I've read that as well with needing more machine. Think that even accounts for light passes? i was surprised since i thought there would be less of a shock load like a fly cutter. but to be honest the wide path of a fly cutter is probably better for just cleaning up surfaces in one pass.

Boring heads and bars: I'll have a look. i wasn't really sure if there was a more optimal style or anything. looks like used Criterion aren't pulling too big a price on eBay so that's an option. EDIT: they actually fetch a pretty penny. I'll just keep my eyes out in general.

Drills: I have some USA HSS but would def like the full 115 index. I'll keep my eyes open. Cobalt worth it over HHS for this?

Spotting drills: I have a bunch of duplicate drills in various conditions from my bulk purchases. Could i achieve the effect of a spotting drill by cutting some of these down for stiffness and resharpening the tips. I figure i could grind them approximate and then I picked up a Drill Doctor 750x that could tidy them up. Should probably only really need one to dimple no?

HHS Blanks: I'll try to pick some up. any tips on where to pickup? Should i be seeking USA HHS or does it not matter since I'm grinding my own.

 

[Aaron_W]

ER collet chuck, and collets are handy. On the mill they can hold end mills or other tooling, on the lathe they are handy for holding smaller stock, faster than a 4 jaw with better accuracy than a 3 jaw chuck.
I now have 3 sets, ER16 for very small stock on my mini-lathe, ER32 for general use on both lathes,, and my mills and ER50 for my 11" lathe.

I also have collet blocks, and a spindexer than work with the ER32 collets.


I have a lot of overlap with my machines so with a 3/4-16 to MT2 adaptor I can use the mini-lathe ER chucks on my mill, or in the tailback of the larger lathe.

 

[pontiac428]

Using those MTM style ammo boxes for tool storage is a really good idea!

 

[macardoso]

Welcome to HM! We are excited to have you here! I'm a fellow G0704 owner (I did a CNC conversion on mine) and I have a lathe. Looks like you got a great start to your collection.

The 115 piece drill set would be my first buy. I wish I would have spent more on mine and gotten split point drills. I don't personally care about the material, but mine are not great at all.

After that, the measuring instruments are needed to do good work on either machine.

If you want a project, a few of us have been doing PM Research steam engine kit. They're a lot of work but a total blast. I've gotten a lot better at machining trying to do mine.

Just a tip, I've found the G0704 to be very flimsy compared to the Bridgeports I had in college. My tip to everyone with one is to stick to 1/4" endmills in steel and 3/8" in aluminum. I occasionally use a 3/4" cutter in aluminum, but due to rigidity, I end up taking less material off than the 3/8".

Steam Engine flywheel


Project page on my G0704

G0704 CNC AC Servo Rebuild (Picture Heavy)

Hi All, About 5 years ago I completed a CNC conversion of a Grizzly G0704 milling machine. Like everyone at that time I chose to go with the Hoss Machine style conversion as there were not many options on the market. I was not comfortable designing my own system at the time since I was just...

www.hobby-machinist.com

 

[CounterSunkenTreasure]

@Aaron_W -Thanks!

ER collets: Seem neat. For the mill i never really thought about it since i had my drill chuck and only so many sized endmills. But they seem really useful on a lathe. I never thought to check for an ER lathe chuck. i bet its way more repeatable than a 3 or 4 jaw as well. The 4 jaw that comes with the G4000 is pretty flimsy. In fact i dont even hav the key and they dont make it any more. I guess I'll put that on the project list.

Collet Block: Didnt know these existed. Seem very useful swapping between he mill and lathe. Which reminds me that i could use a set of V Blocks in general.

@pontiac428
Rifle ammo cases: I can't claim credit i spotted someone doing it somewhere. Dimensions are kind of a pain in the butt to get so i just bought one of each to figure it out. If I get some time I'll post up my findings. In general they fit will and you can put some foam up top as well. You need a band or something around it though as its a light slip fit. I used velcro wire strapping. For the 1/2 ones they fit tight and straight. for smaller i had to flip some of them to protect the flutes.

@macardoso

CNC: Sounds pretty awesome. I've looked into it but have a ways to go before i venture down that hole. About what did all the automation equipment run you?

115 Drills: yeah i have some good USA HHS drills but not that wide a range. I was debating china bits or waiting on a deal on a USA set.

Measurement: I've got a pretty good start on these. I need a better holder set for my DTIs. I dont have anything great except what came with my Interapid and i dont love that one either. I'll try to pop some pictures up later. I also ended up with some metric ones I'm not sure ill use... but once the DROs are up perhaps I will.

Steam Engine: Seems need. I designed and fabricated one back in school on the big boy machines and it was fun. I'll probably be doing more smaller widgets etc as parts of other projects. I tend to pick up too many projects so try to keep my scopes down. But its not off the radar for sure. Looks like you're getting some darn fine cuts on that flywheel!

G0704 Rigidity: Yeah i heard that. So does it have to do a lot with depth of cut? I cam into a ton of 1/2 tooling i wouldn't mind using in general. But i have all the sizes.

 

[Aaron_W]

Yes, I forgot the 4 jaw that comes with the G4000 is awful. I have an Enco 9x20 which is identical to the G4000 other than color and brand name. I have actually used Grizzly parts to replace some that were missing when I got it. There is also that weird metric spindle thread to deal with, it would have been so much better if it used the much more common 1-1/2"-8 thread.

ER collet chucks are not really a direct replacement for 3 or 4 jaw chucks, as the holding capacity is much more limited. ER 32 can hold up to 3/4",and the ER50 up to 1-1/4", even my little Sherline can hold a 2"+ piece in its 3 and 4 jaw chucks. The size of your work will have an influence on how useful they are.

The collet blocks are handy for milling square and hex shapes into round stock, as well as other work holding tasks.


There are lots of cool things to spend money on, but the ER collets are something I actually use fairly often.

 

[ttabbal]

@ttabbal Thanks!

Flycutter: any general guidelines for size or style?

Facemill: I've read that as well with needing more machine. Think that even accounts for light passes? i was surprised since i thought there would be less of a shock load like a fly cutter. but to be honest the wide path of a fly cutter is probably better for just cleaning up surfaces in one pass.

Boring heads and bars: I'll have a look. i wasn't really sure if there was a more optimal style or anything. looks like used Criterion aren't pulling too big a price on eBay so that's an option. EDIT: they actually fetch a pretty penny. I'll just keep my eyes out in general.

Drills: I have some USA HSS but would def like the full 115 index. I'll keep my eyes open. Cobalt worth it over HHS for this?

Spotting drills: I have a bunch of duplicate drills in various conditions from my bulk purchases. Could i achieve the effect of a spotting drill by cutting some of these down for stiffness and resharpening the tips. I figure i could grind them approximate and then I picked up a Drill Doctor 750x that could tidy them up. Should probably only really need one to dimple no?

HHS Blanks: I'll try to pick some up. any tips on where to pickup? Should i be seeking USA HHS or does it not matter since I'm grinding my own.

I'm just using a simple one that can cut about a 3" pass with a 3/8" HSS bit. I just ground it myself and it works great.

Facemills are great, but they usually have multiple points of contact, so it's like running 3-4 tools at once. You could probably use them with lighter cuts.

I also like roughing end mills. They remove material faster with less tool pressure, but don't leave as nice a finish. Leave some material and switch to a finish end mill to get better finish for the final cuts.

Cobalt vs HSS for drills is less important. The cobalt will last longer, but be more brittle, so don't use them in hand tools. If you keep them in the machines, so they don't get side loads and such, they should hold up well. Since you have a sharpener, it might be better for you to go with normal HSS.

Converting a drill to a spotter might work for you. They are pretty cheap though. Might not be worth the bother.

For HSS blanks, start with some import HSS. You will likely mess some up and it's less painful on cheap bits. Once you get some experience, pick up some nice brand name HSS. I got most of mine on ebay.

This is the style of fly cutter I use. It would be pretty easy to make one too.

FLY TOOL CUTTER--2-" x 3/4" ---3/8" TOOL BIT--APT MADE IN THE U.S.A. | eBay

2" x 3/4" UNI-KUT FLY TOOL CUTTER---APT MADE IN THE U.S.A. 3/4" SHANK--USES 3/8 TOOL BIT. ---USES INEXPENSIVE STANDARD TOOL BITS---.

www.ebay.com

These are a good price and work well for me.

50pcs 3/8 x 3" HSS Square tool bits for $189.00 #HS-2BT-38---new | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 50pcs 3/8 x 3" HSS Square tool bits for $189.00 #HS-2BT-38---new at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[macardoso]

CNC: Sounds pretty awesome. I've looked into it but have a ways to go before i venture down that hole. About what did all the automation equipment run you?

I have a good gig with work where I'm allowed to take discarded equipment home to mess around with as long as I'm using it for home learning and not selling it/giving it to anyone. I've shared a lot of my gained knowledge with people at work so I think it is a fair deal. If I were to do a nice stepper build, it would probably be $3k including good ballscrews and all the conversion hardware. Add $1k if you want DMM servos.

I do panel design and automation at work, so I have fun actually building the stuff at home.

115 Drills: yeah i have some good USA HHS drills but not that wide a range. I was debating china bits or waiting on a deal on a USA set.

I bought a basic black oxide import set for around $120. I figured I'd replace the bad/broken ones with good stuff when needed. Unfortunately quite a few were bent or poorly ground to start with and the cost of shipping discourages me from replacing them often enough. Wish I'd spent $100-200 extra to start with so the drills were better quality. Again, split point would be a must IMO.

Measurement: I've got a pretty good start on these. I need a better holder set for my DTIs. I dont have anything great except what came with my Interapid and i dont love that one either. I'll try to pop some pictures up later. I also ended up with some metric ones I'm not sure ill use... but once the DROs are up perhaps I will.

Awesome!

Steam Engine: Seems need. I designed and fabricated one back in school on the big boy machines and it was fun. I'll probably be doing more smaller widgets etc as parts of other projects. I tend to pick up too many projects so try to keep my scopes down. But its not off the radar for sure. Looks like you're getting some darn fine cuts on that flywheel!

My buddy asked me to help him build this one. It has been fun, but it is currently on the back burner while I work on another project. I try to limit myself to 2 at a time and work on the one that sounds the most fun on any given day.

G0704 Rigidity: Yeah i heard that. So does it have to do a lot with depth of cut? I cam into a ton of 1/2 tooling i wouldn't mind using in general. But i have all the sizes.

The larger the diameter, the greater the lateral forces applied to the spindle as a result of the cut (even for the same depth and width of cut in a smaller tool). There's nothing to say you can't use the bigger tool, but you won't be able to really "use" the full capability of the tool. I think I can get close to actually "using" the full capabilities of 1/4" tooling in steel. If you're paying for carbide, I'd rather spend $20 on a tool vs. $50 for a 1/2" cutter if they are going to give the same performance.

Large Depth of cut (e.g. .750") and small width of cut (e.g. 0.030") seems to work best on this machine if you get the choice.