I think most machinist want a cnc but for good reason and myth they are scared

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

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The CNC naysayers remind me of the arguments I heard in the early 90's, when I bought my first computer and cellphone.
 
I read the last post with a little chuckle. It makes it sound like you really have to have these things to live, you don't. I still don't own a cell phone. What I have to say to someone can wait till I get home. I only have this computer because it was given to me. Yes, it has improved my life. I don't need a CNC machine either. I don't need one. Someone also said that time is important, it isn't. The person that told him. as a hobby machinist time doesn't mean anything was RIGHT, not wrong. If you need something made by me and you tell me when you need it by, I will promptly tell you to take it somewhere else. I no longer punch a clock.

I am not against technology, I just don't need a lot of the new things. Yes, as far as CNC goes for me, I am a naysayer. But that is using it for me, it has it's place. That place just isn't here in my shop and that's the way it is, period.

"Billy G"
 
I have run manual machines all my life except for at one job. They had a Proto-Trak there that no one used. I took it upon myself to play with it in my spare time, which I had a lot of at that job. It was real easy to learn because it was conversational although there were a few things you had to know that were not always on a blueprint. That's where having cad came in. But as far as other cnc machines I have seen some very costly crashes happen when someone misses something in their program. I could not afford a crash so will stay with manual machines. Unless someone happens to have an old proto trak they are giving away.:)
 
Hi Jimdawson , TBH I rarely maake anything with geometry that is all that complex, or that requires the critical perfection obtainable on CNC. I enjoy operating machines, not standing by and watching them operate. Whichever way you look at it, CNC is not an advance from the skill point of view, though it might be from the time and cost point of view, unless you work in the huge cost of modern cnc machines. I anm certainly no luddite, I have been on the internet since 1996 and have used computers since the ZX spectrum, and used to program, write pure html etc etc I enjoy driving cars, I used to race them when I was younger, but I would not be at all interested in a car that drove itself. I agree with Bill.
Phil
 
Billh50 said:
I have run manual machines all my life except for at one job. They had a Proto-Trak there that no one used. I took it upon myself to play with it in my spare time, which I had a lot of at that job. It was real easy to learn because it was conversational although there were a few things you had to know that were not always on a blueprint. That's where having cad came in. But as far as other cnc machines I have seen some very costly crashes happen when someone misses something in their program. I could not afford a crash so will stay with manual machines. Unless someone happens to have an old proto trak they are giving away.:)
Click to expand...

There is zero reason to crash a CNC machine due to the program, ever. It happens but its not the fault of the program. A newly written CNC program can have a programming error that will crash a machine yes, that's why new programs are proofed by an experienced operator, at a much reduced speed with the operator reading and understanding the G code the machine is about to execute next to avoid crashing the machine. If a shop allows some inexperienced knucklehead to run a new program and the guy just hits the green button and stands back allowing the machine to crash well...that's not the fault of the CNC program.

I learned on large CNC lathes the size of a small car with 50lb chuck jaws and parts weighing a few hundred pounds. Not wanting to take a 50lb chuck jaw in the teeth it was simple enough to go slow on the first part, control the machine, and once the program was proofed I could let her fly at full speed the rest of my shift.

Crashes can be very costly indeed and I think your point is valid certainly for smaller shops that don't have deep pockets, can they afford a crash? That's real world.
 
This is a topic that will not end!
I have seen it sense the late 70's and it is still going on.
The old timers as we called them,then and management had a problem with the new way to do things. CNC
Yes, I have a rotary table, indexer, ect, ect,and so on.
Yes, I have a cnc mill. I use the mill in manual and cnc control.
Believe me, I know the advantages of using manual machines verses controlled machines and vise versa.

But lets not close our Eyes, and influence new comers, its like bad habits, they are easily learned and passed on.

Cnc, has change greatly over the years and new systems are very easy to learn and use in a short time.
Even if time is not and issue, there is skill needed, for any method used to do a job.
Some methods produce nicer results , more accurately . It just depends on, where you are skilled.
You will never, compete with a cnc machine for flexibility! It is how it is. There will always be manual machines,
and equipment. I believe in learning to do things the old way, the hard way! Learn how to be a machinist, learn the feel of a machine,
Yes every machine has its own feel. If you learn the basic's and how to use all the different accessories use to do different operations,
You will be ahead of the game. Then you will greatly appreciate the application of Cnc.
 
coolidge said:
There is zero reason to crash a CNC machine due to the program, ever. It happens but its not the fault of the program. A newly written CNC program can have a programming error that will crash a machine yes, that's why new programs are proofed by an experienced operator, at a much reduced speed with the operator reading and understanding the G code the machine is about to execute next to avoid crashing the machine.crash?
Click to expand...

I was going to stay out of this thread and watch and see how it plays out. But I have to respond to this.

I have 6 VMC's I set up and run. Our programmer made one very small change in a program so long I have to DNC it. The run time on this programs is well over an hour. I reloaded the program and about 45 mins into it the tool holder hit the part because he typed in just one wrong number.

I can't let my other 5 machines sit while I watch this one machine especially when our programmer said it's good to go. If I did I wouldn't be working there very long. I've been told to trust the programmer and 99% of the time all is well. He made a mistake, we all do from time to time.

I think this thread will be ongoing pretty much forever. There are so many opinions for and against CNC. I need it, you may not. I have manual machines but the bottom line is I can't match the production rate of a CNC with my manual. I just picked up a new customer and he showed me a cargo container full of transmissions all needing my attention. It would take a very very long time to do them all with my manual. I would do maybe 3-4 a week, and with CNC I can do that many a night after work each day. For me it's what I need to do if I ever have a chance keeping up with the work I have. If I cant get the parts out in a timely manner, my customer will go elsewhere.

For me it business pure and simple.I stay small or go bigger. I love making and designing new things and seeing the look on my customers faces when they get their hot rod going with my trans conversion it it. I've just helped them complete their dream ride. As of now I've helped over 400 people with their projects. Feels good to know I've had a part in that many hot rods and I have customers all over the world. I just sent one back to Germany.

And with the CNC mill I just picked up I have lots of ideas for new products I can make. That's my dream. It also funds my hot rod projects and allows me to buy new big boy toys :)
 
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I have nothing against a cnc....just not the kind of money I can see spending for a hobby. I do know there are many things that would be a lot easier and less time consuming with a cnc. But unless a hobbyist has a lot of money to spend he won't be using a cnc. It's a lot easier to spend a little here and a little there for tooling as needed than to spend a good amount on a cnc. After all this is HOBBY MACHINIST.
 
Please take a moment here and reread the title. It insinuates nothing about whether manual is better or vise versa. It is stating a reason why the OP thinks some won't use CNC. Let's try to get back to basics here.

It states the word afraid. I am not afraid of CNC, nor to I condemn it. I don't state that it is the program that does the work, not the operator. Who or what does it is not the issue. The issue is why some don't want it.

I don't run production in my home shop so I don't need CNC to make my parts. I can do them manually and have the time. If I don't need something, why buy it, plain and simple. This is not to say in the future I may need one. I need to make some molds for forming Carbon Fiber airplane parts. A CNC Router table would help and I know where there is one that I can use.

You are discussing the wrong argument. No individual can be wrong here. Any answer is the right answer.

"Billy G"
 
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