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I need some opinions on belt sanders
- Thread starter Metal
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2013
- Messages
- 1,429
a belt sander is a very simple machine to make--with very little cost---If you lived closer I would be glad to help you build some----first look for a very good bargain on a good quantity of belts and build your sander to use them---old motors are easy and cheap to provide your power---I've made several for under $20 ---one of mine is 6" by 102" belt, with an 18" disk, and a 4" by 18" long drum ----at one time in 1983 I bought a whole pickup load of good quality new sandpaper cloth belts---the longest ones are 6" wide by 20' belts(40' of belt)---some were 5' wide----I have never had to buy any more belts or emery cloth ----and I am still going to make more sanders to use the belts in my shop-----Dave * note---to make it heavy like Ugly Dog says---and a small footprint that you desire is to mount it on another heavy machine or bench that you already have
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- Joined
- Dec 18, 2013
- Messages
- 2,373
I purchased this Made in USA Kalamazoo 1x42 recently for $290, Baldor motor, blah blah. I thought that by spending more for Made in USA, Baldor motor it would be more but I'm honestly not that impressed with it. It works 'okay' but look at the thing its sheet metal.
Then shockingly this beast came up for sale on our normally ridiculously high priced craigslist for only $300, its a 6x54.5 cast iron monster. Can be used vertically or also tilts at any angle all the way to horizontal. 2 speed. Has a dust port. McMasterCarr has belts in stock for it. The difference between this and the Kalamazoo is from Earth to Mars.
Then shockingly this beast came up for sale on our normally ridiculously high priced craigslist for only $300, its a 6x54.5 cast iron monster. Can be used vertically or also tilts at any angle all the way to horizontal. 2 speed. Has a dust port. McMasterCarr has belts in stock for it. The difference between this and the Kalamazoo is from Earth to Mars.
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2017
- Messages
- 22
I saw this post a few days ago and wanted to comment, but refrained until now. Partially because I'm envious of that beast of a machine from Syracuse.
So anyway, I've got the HF 4x36 and disk sander. It is the bench top unit. I mention that because for all I know the free standing unit may not have the issues mine has.
Issue #1 power.
This thing is ridiculously weak. The belt also moves quite slow. It's like they decided that they could use a high speed motor, gear it down for some power, and then said nah, lets just put in the 99cent motor direct belt drive and call it good. My 8 year old easily and repeatedly brought the motor to a stop when working on his PW derby car.
I know it isn't much work to put a bigger motor on it. Or to add a weighted flywheel (assuming the motor could even spin it up) to increase rotational inertial. Probably a recycled washer or even dryer motor would be much more powerful. Maybe my old drill press motor once I upgrade it and slap a VFD on that. That said, it is work to upgrade the motor, and the motor that comes with it is so weak I'm not sure what I'd do with that one afterwards. Feel free to add suggestions of cool shop projects for recycled wimpy motors.
I am pretty sure my shop fans are packing more heat than this thing.
#2 Belt changing.
This thing is clearly made for a user that is going to put a belt on, use it till its worn out, use it for another month after that, and then replace it when it breaks or they have half a day to kill. And by use it till it wears out, I don't even mean cleaning the belt once in a while, just till its totally dead.
I don't know if you've changed the belts very often on this thing, but heres what you do. I wrote up this set of instructions for users new to the HF 4x36 +6" disc sander.
First, watch a few videos of knife makers, welders, and machinists, and otehr hobbyists with 2x72 belt grinders where they, in the space of 5 minutes, start at 80 grit, and move up through every grit in between to 2000 grit and follow it up with a mirror polishing belt, producing a beautiful piece of work. And then they remark on how most of the belts have been in service for 2-5 years each. Bonus if the videos include 2x72 units that have VFD speed control, 5hp motors and can turn that belt from 5 fpm up to mach 27. Take special note of the beautifully flat and square tool rests and tables in use, especially if you see any interesting table jigs for doing special tasks with perfect precision.
Then head over to your machine.
Think longingly of those 2x72's in the videos with motors that weigh more than your entire sander, and understand that they are running belt grinders, and you are definitely running a belt sander.
Loosen the belt tensioner lever.
Pull off the belt.
Realize that you cannot just pull off the belt.
Remove 4 screws without lock washers on the piece of plastic that is there to make sure all dust from the belt gets an equal chance to migrate directly into the motor or belt drive.
Pull belt off.
Realize that you still cannot just pull off the belt.
Think about just cutting off the old belt.
Remember that this will not help you get the new one on at all.
Realize you should have done all this with the belt in the vertical position.
Realize that if it was designed right you'd have some knobs or levers, but no, go get a wrench to loosen the two nuts that hold it in position.
Put the belt sander part in the vertical position and realize that now your adjustable wrench will not fit in there. On way to getting specific sized wrench remember that you taped the wrench that came with it onto the stand. Go back to stand and get the stamped metal wrench that came with it.
Put the belt sander back in the vertical position (it sure wasn't going to stay that way with the nuts loose). Tighten the two nuts enough to hold it firm but not so tight that it strips the nuts, bolts, and your knuckles. The measure of force is precisely 37 newton milligrams per tri phasic turn, compounded by the phase of the moon.
Remove the entire back of the belt sander piece, via 4 more screws with lock washers.
Put these near but not with the other screws without the lock washers. Make sure to choose a side and treat one group of screws better than the others so one group knows you do not favor them. Or hate them all, that was my path.
Remove sheet metal rear peice, realize that the way it's made it has been grinding itself on the inside, on the bottom side of the belt sander.
Pull belt off.
Realize that you really still cannot pull off the belt.
Remove bolt for the "tool rest".
Try hard to not to notice how pathetic and out of square it is in every direction that matters.
Pull off the belt.
Belt finally does in fact come off!
Replace belt, thinking about which grit you want to leave on till it dies.
Consider leaving all the extra crap off so you can change belts with more ease.
Realize that without the rear plate the entire belt sanding piece becomes even more flexy than it was before.
Sigh, and tell yourself it wont be such a pain next time (it will be).
Get much more serious about building that 2-5hp 2x72 belt grinder.
So anyway, I've got the HF 4x36 and disk sander. It is the bench top unit. I mention that because for all I know the free standing unit may not have the issues mine has.
Issue #1 power.
This thing is ridiculously weak. The belt also moves quite slow. It's like they decided that they could use a high speed motor, gear it down for some power, and then said nah, lets just put in the 99cent motor direct belt drive and call it good. My 8 year old easily and repeatedly brought the motor to a stop when working on his PW derby car.
I know it isn't much work to put a bigger motor on it. Or to add a weighted flywheel (assuming the motor could even spin it up) to increase rotational inertial. Probably a recycled washer or even dryer motor would be much more powerful. Maybe my old drill press motor once I upgrade it and slap a VFD on that. That said, it is work to upgrade the motor, and the motor that comes with it is so weak I'm not sure what I'd do with that one afterwards. Feel free to add suggestions of cool shop projects for recycled wimpy motors.
I am pretty sure my shop fans are packing more heat than this thing.
#2 Belt changing.
This thing is clearly made for a user that is going to put a belt on, use it till its worn out, use it for another month after that, and then replace it when it breaks or they have half a day to kill. And by use it till it wears out, I don't even mean cleaning the belt once in a while, just till its totally dead.
I don't know if you've changed the belts very often on this thing, but heres what you do. I wrote up this set of instructions for users new to the HF 4x36 +6" disc sander.
First, watch a few videos of knife makers, welders, and machinists, and otehr hobbyists with 2x72 belt grinders where they, in the space of 5 minutes, start at 80 grit, and move up through every grit in between to 2000 grit and follow it up with a mirror polishing belt, producing a beautiful piece of work. And then they remark on how most of the belts have been in service for 2-5 years each. Bonus if the videos include 2x72 units that have VFD speed control, 5hp motors and can turn that belt from 5 fpm up to mach 27. Take special note of the beautifully flat and square tool rests and tables in use, especially if you see any interesting table jigs for doing special tasks with perfect precision.
Then head over to your machine.
Think longingly of those 2x72's in the videos with motors that weigh more than your entire sander, and understand that they are running belt grinders, and you are definitely running a belt sander.
Loosen the belt tensioner lever.
Pull off the belt.
Realize that you cannot just pull off the belt.
Remove 4 screws without lock washers on the piece of plastic that is there to make sure all dust from the belt gets an equal chance to migrate directly into the motor or belt drive.
Pull belt off.
Realize that you still cannot just pull off the belt.
Think about just cutting off the old belt.
Remember that this will not help you get the new one on at all.
Realize you should have done all this with the belt in the vertical position.
Realize that if it was designed right you'd have some knobs or levers, but no, go get a wrench to loosen the two nuts that hold it in position.
Put the belt sander part in the vertical position and realize that now your adjustable wrench will not fit in there. On way to getting specific sized wrench remember that you taped the wrench that came with it onto the stand. Go back to stand and get the stamped metal wrench that came with it.
Put the belt sander back in the vertical position (it sure wasn't going to stay that way with the nuts loose). Tighten the two nuts enough to hold it firm but not so tight that it strips the nuts, bolts, and your knuckles. The measure of force is precisely 37 newton milligrams per tri phasic turn, compounded by the phase of the moon.
Remove the entire back of the belt sander piece, via 4 more screws with lock washers.
Put these near but not with the other screws without the lock washers. Make sure to choose a side and treat one group of screws better than the others so one group knows you do not favor them. Or hate them all, that was my path.
Remove sheet metal rear peice, realize that the way it's made it has been grinding itself on the inside, on the bottom side of the belt sander.
Pull belt off.
Realize that you really still cannot pull off the belt.
Remove bolt for the "tool rest".
Try hard to not to notice how pathetic and out of square it is in every direction that matters.
Pull off the belt.
Belt finally does in fact come off!
Replace belt, thinking about which grit you want to leave on till it dies.
Consider leaving all the extra crap off so you can change belts with more ease.
Realize that without the rear plate the entire belt sanding piece becomes even more flexy than it was before.
Sigh, and tell yourself it wont be such a pain next time (it will be).
Get much more serious about building that 2-5hp 2x72 belt grinder.
U
umahunter
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This new fein unit looks pretty cool can be used stationery or hand held but carries a nice price tag of around 600 bucks
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2017
- Messages
- 22
Thing with that form factor of motor is that it can give you low torque rpms, or with gearing, low rpm torque. It can't really give you high power high speed.
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As with any tool you will get what you pay for. For a more spendy unit you will get the ability to change belt tracking and tension on the fly with handles and knobs. You will also get a commercial grade motor with sealed bearings that won't get knackered out from abrasive dust. The additional mass of a heavier, more expensive unit will go a long way in helping with a smooth finish as it will help reduce the vibration as will the better quality bearings, motor and rigid construction. The wheels will also be better quality and survive continued use and the plenum will be made of heavier stock instead of toilet paper.
Better quality units will have a cam belt tensioner that allows you to flip a leaver and remove the belt in seconds as they are designed to accomodate varying grits for commercial work. Because of their commercial nature they have better design features that help save a lot of time.
I have spent a great deal of time operating belt grinders and have used cheap and expensive units. I recommend a more costly unit with the above features every time if you expect to use it for more than deburring once in a blue moon.
Paul.
Better quality units will have a cam belt tensioner that allows you to flip a leaver and remove the belt in seconds as they are designed to accomodate varying grits for commercial work. Because of their commercial nature they have better design features that help save a lot of time.
I have spent a great deal of time operating belt grinders and have used cheap and expensive units. I recommend a more costly unit with the above features every time if you expect to use it for more than deburring once in a blue moon.
Paul.